Insightful strike as a feat

[aradinn]

im asking for your opinion of the insightful strike from swashbucklers as a feat?

Insightful Strike
Prerequisites: 17+ int, Combat Expertise, weapon finesse
Benefit: You add your intelligence modifier to damage. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to this damage. this is only useable with light/finesse-able weapons

or just 17+int and BAB +4 as prerequisites?
help truly appreciated

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Firt of all, isn't it supposed to be with light/finesse weapons only? Second of all...are you trying to destroy the Swashbuckler class?

 

[aradinn]

light and finesse also...
adding tt in

 

[akbearfoot]

completely bent as a feat.

Since almost anyone interested in this feat would already have a high dex and weapon finesse, the prerequisites are basically invisible.


Maybe if it REPLACED your strength modifier to damage, as WELL as specifically not stacking with abilities that add OTHER stats modifiers to damage then sure. So no stacking strength mod AND dex mod AND int mod to damage. If you want to do that, then dip into 3 PrCs with lots more prereqs and have a sucky BaB live everyone else.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I think it could use a few more prerequisites. Not stuff that's total junk like Toughness, but useful things put in just to delay availability to most non-Fighters. Not sure what to require, maybe a tactical feat? Those are often not even available till level 6 and usually require 1-3 feats in their own right to obtain. I'd just like to see more required. If you use Improved Combat Expertise (or whatever the name is) from Complete Warrior, consider adding that if its own prerequisites aren't too high?

See no reason to not let it tack with others, though. People seem to assume the characters have all 18's for stats. If you manage (through lots of multiclassing and/or feat pick ups: swashbuckler + Swordsage + Shadow Blade or this new feat + Martial Study + Martial Stance + Shadow Blade) to get all 3 of those stats to damage, you're still probably only at most a few points of damage over the guy just adding strength (and due to single stat focus for attacks ha a higher str than you have in any of the 3 you use). If said str guy is two-handing, he's getting 1.5x str, and is likely about as good as you for bonus ability-based damage, all for the cost of no feats, and a higher weapon die. Add in 2H Power Attack and... So, count me in for a vote of "not broken." I just want it to be more costly / take longer to get. ESPECIALLY if Swashbuckler will still exist, just being a level 3 Swashbuckler had better be a MUCH easier way to get int to damage than this feat.

 

[s-dub]

I like the idea of replacing the STR mod with INT mod.

That way you don't avoid some of the cheese common when the levels get up there.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

That way you don't avoid some of the cheese common when the levels get up there.

"When the levels get up there," I'm far more concerned about the spell casters (and possibly, the ToB adepts) to care about a few extra points of damage a really twinked Fighter is getting. YMMV.

 

[akbearfoot]

That's sorta my point....you can already manage to stack ability bonuses...So anything you want to do to get the ability another way should cost AT LEAST that much.


So you take 3 levels of swashbuckler, and a level of swordsage...That drastically changes the nature of a person who wants the ability. Or you spend several feats and can't take it until higher level due to being feat starved. Less BAB, less feats, different skills, less hitpoints, different tactics required to survive.


Also, you aren't supposed to create magic items and abilities with the assumption that the worst candidate will use it...you are SUPPOSED to assume the guy using it will have 18s in all stats or at least that it will be used by someone who is well equipped to take advantage of it. A headband of intellect isn't cheaper just because a fighter buys it.

I would assume a character who rolled using 4d6 method and ended up with an 18 a 17 and a 16 to build a character with something like this in mind. Multiple stats adding to damage screws up the basic intent of damage scaling...the more damage something does the more it costs...now instead of being limited to strength mod, and a +6 strength item, you get to add another stat, and another +6 stat item, and then a 3rd. At high levels that 1 feat can end up adding 10+ damage per hit, which is stronger than epic feats.

 

[pawsplay]

The Int 17+ is pretty arbitrary, since anyone who takes this is going to want to have as high an Int as possible. Might as well make it 13+ to be consistent. Weapon Finesse sounds good, since it works with finessable weapons, and Combat Expertise is completely logical. I see one other important requirement that is missing: a minimum BAB. It needs to be at least as high as a Swashbuckler needs to get it, and preferably higher, out of deference to that class. It is also, at low to mid levels, more versatile and better than Weapon Specialization. So I'm thinking BAB +5 would be a good requirement. That will also slow down anyone wanting to stack Insightful Strike with sneak attack.

It still seems like it's missing something. You could make Int replace Str, but first of all, that kind of gets away from the original intent, and second, it's not going to very limiting to most people would would choose this feat.

 

[Nifft]

im asking for your opinion of the insightful strike from swashbucklers as a feat?

Broken. And there's no way to fix it.

Taking three levels of Swashbuckler, an otherwise terribly underpowered class, makes this power "balanced" (for spellcasters).

Cheers, -- N