Instant Wizard?

[Griffith Dragonlake]

Personally I do not see it as cheese. Giving up one level of wizard for a first level in Rogue is suboptimal trade-off IMHO.

From a story perspective, the ability to freely add levels of classes that are supposed to represent years of training is the one component of 3.x that breaks the suspension of disbelief for me. One way to reconcile it is to require the skill monkey to take max cross-class arcane skills, i.e. spellcraft, knowledge (arcana), and possibly max ranks in decipher script and UMD. There is a feat in d20 Modern Arcana that grants arcane skills as class skills.

But at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself ‘is this a fight worth fighting?’ After all, it does not unbalance the game or grant an unfair advantage to allow multiclassing per the RAW.

Just my two farthings.

 

[JohnSnow]

From a story perspective, the ability to freely add levels of classes that are supposed to represent years of training is the one component of 3.x that breaks the suspension of disbelief for me.

See, I don't particularly see 1st level as representing "years of training." Most PCs start out at what, 18-20 years of age? So figure that they've been seriously training in their chosen field for 3-5 years. That's not so long. Especially while still being farmers, or whatever.

The fighter character probably picked up everything he knows in the game equivalent of basic training. Sure, he could spend 3 years learning it, or he could go intense and get in 6 weeks. The wizard's training in spellcasting is a result of an apprenticeship. But based on what we've seen in literature, learning to cast a couple weak spells seems to take, again, a few weeks.

However, if it bothers anyone, there's a variant rule to handle this in the DMG. It's called "training." But then it should apply to ALL PCs gaining a level. Whether it's in their existing class or a new one. If anyone feels like the gp cost is unfair, I could justify requiring the training time, but not the training cost. A few weeks downtime to gain levels makes sense to me. I hate it when characters level up mid-adventure anyway.

Besides, that encourages characters to take some (realistic) time off between adventures.

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

See, I don't particularly see 1st level as representing "years of training." Most PCs start out at what, 18-20 years of age? So figure that they've been seriously training in their chosen field for 3-5 years. That's not so long. Especially while still being farmers, or whatever.

I guess I prefer the 1st ed. ages where Wizards start off in the 30s. Hey, I like my wizards old!

 

[DogBackward]

Except that young folks play DnD, too. And a 16-20 year old kid playing a 35+ year old wizard... well, it's jsut not a good idea. For one, somone that young can't reallistically play the wisdom and experience of age as well. And it also makes it hard for the player to connect with the character. A lot of younger players I know imagine themselves as their characters, which is hard to do if your character is an old fogy.

Besides, the young, upstart apprentice wizard is just as common a fantasy archetype as the musty old geezer.

Also, to those who seem to think their players need to train... what do you think they're doing for the eight hours they're not walking to the dungeon each day? It does not take four hours to set up/tear down a camp. Your fighter is standing off to one side, swinging his sword around. The cleric is deep in meditations, contacting his divine inspiration. The wizard is poring through his spellbooks, making connections and gettin gideas for new ways to cast spells.

Not to mention... constantly fighting off tons of bad-guys makes for some pretty damn intense training, y'think? You don't need to spend a week sparring in town if you just spent a week doing the real thing in a dungeon.

And yes, I've let my characters level in mid-battle before, after they killed a particularly XP heavy creature, in the middle of the be-all, end-all fight they were losing horribly. The cleric was infused with divine power, as his deity stepped in to lend a hand, while the wizard, after a failed spell, gained sudden insight into the workings of his magic. Under the pressure, something just "clicked", and he blasted another minion to the depths of hell.

I'll say it again: stop obsessing over minor details. Make your game fun, exciting and full of action and adventure, and your players will thank you from the bottom of their dice bag. DnD is not about who can train the longest, it's about a disparate band of adventurers coming together to fight evil, and having fun. If you have to worry about finding a place to train, and finding someone to teach you... that's not all that fun, now is it?

 

[lamproswc]

To be clear, I don't have a problem with the basic strategy - I think it underscores a basic skill weakness in the wizard. I'd just like to have a reasonable way to achieve it in the game world.

He's always been a Wizard, he's just shy. He keeps his spellcasting powers hidden until Level 2, at which point you can create an encounter where he has to use them to save an NPC or something. Bonus points if wizards are unpopular in your game world. Fantasy is full of this kind of character.

Or you can just say "he was always a Wizard but didn't feel like casting spells until level 2". Level 1 doesn't last very long, I don't think it will stretch credibility too much.

 

[lamproswc]

Also, to those who seem to think their players need to train... what do you think they're doing for the eight hours they're not walking to the dungeon each day?

Making fun of their buddies, trying to get laid, reading, bitching about the weather, and getting drunk. I mean, you know, if you want to be realistic about it =P

 

[DogBackward]

Ree-uh-liss-tick? What's that mean? Oh, hey! Can you kill it?