Intelligent Items at 1st level?

[jontherev]

Have any DMs out there ever run a campaign centered around magic items? I'm handing out intelligent items that are pretty powerful at 1st level. Although they are each very nice, I'm trying hard to make them balanced. For example, the armor for the rogue is a +1 glamered mithril chain shirt of nimbleness with the shadow and silent moves abilities. It also can cast detect magic at will and use blur 3 times/day. There's also a few other things it can do that I've houseruled, like having skill points and gaining experience (eerily similar to the Unearthed Arcana rules). Yeah, I know it sounds uber powerful. However, I think the item will settle down in power after 3 or 4 levels. Plus, he won't be able to add any enchantments for a LONG time, probably after 10th level, since we're going through the Red Hand of Doom.

I guess my question is...does anyone else have experience doing this sort of thing, and if so, did you run into problems with the pc's running through your encounters like adamantine through butter? I'm actually more concerned with the item I'm making for the wizard...a spellbook that applies the Silent Spell, Eshew Materials, and Still Spell feats on any spells prepared with it at no cost, plus some other stuff. Again, nice on paper, but not so overly powerful in the game...or is it? When I'm done writing them all up, maybe I'll post them for a more informed response. Thanks anyway...

 

[KidCthulhu]

I'd say those items as WAY overpowered for a 1st level PC. I'd hand those out to a 12-15 party.

There's nothing wrong, however, with making items that have potential, and then opening that potential to the players over time. You say intelligent items in the thread title, but don't discuss it in your post.

So give the items personalities, and have them talk to the players. They can drop hints about all the things they could do, but can't do yet because the players haven't [destroyed the villain, found the McGuffin, wiped out the threat to place wherever]. Or perhaps the items were once an adventuring party, and now they're trapped in these items. As the PCs follow the plot along to find out who killed them and finish their mission, the former adventurers "remember" their abilities, and the items get more powerful.

This way you get a plot hook and magic items all at once. The players will find this really rewarding and you'll have a much better control over the power level in your game.

Under no circumstances would I hand the items you're describing to a 1st level party, unless they came with a significant cost or curse that would keep the PCs from using it willy-nilly. And where's the fun in that. Better to have them unlock the item as they go.

 

[jontherev]

I'd say those items as WAY overpowered for a 1st level PC. I'd hand those out to a 12-15 party.

There's nothing wrong, however, with making items that have potential, and then opening that potential to the players over time. You say intelligent items in the thread title, but don't discuss it in your post.

So give the items personalities, and have them talk to the players. They can drop hints about all the things they could do, but can't do yet because the players haven't [destroyed the villain, found the McGuffin, wiped out the threat to place wherever]. Or perhaps the items were once an adventuring party, and now they're trapped in these items. As the PCs follow the plot along to find out who killed them and finish their mission, the former adventurers "remember" their abilities, and the items get more powerful.

This way you get a plot hook and magic items all at once. The players will find this really rewarding and you'll have a much better control over the power level in your game.

Under no circumstances would I hand the items you're describing to a 1st level party, unless they came with a significant cost or curse that would keep the PCs from using it willy-nilly. And where's the fun in that. Better to have them unlock the item as they go.

Good idea on holding back certain abilities until certain levels. I already have a complete history and origin of the items, which of course involves the BBEG. For now, they only have empathy, so no talking really...and they don't remember their own origin because they were put in a temporal stasis 1000 years ago upon creation.

I do disagree with the power levels though. All feats are not made equal, and just because I drop 3 feats into an item, doesn't make it uber powerful. Still, I do like your idea about "tapping" into these abilities at certain levels. I think I'll do that just in case I've made a mistake in thinking they aren't TOO much. Or, I can just add enemies...in any case, thanks for your advice.

 

[kenmarable]

Weapons of Legacy

Have any DMs out there ever run a campaign centered around magic items? I'm handing out intelligent items that are pretty powerful at 1st level. Although they are each very nice, I'm trying hard to make them balanced. For example, the armor for the rogue is a +1 glamered mithril chain shirt of nimbleness with the shadow and silent moves abilities. It also can cast detect magic at will and use blur 3 times/day. There's also a few other things it can do that I've houseruled, like having skill points and gaining experience (eerily similar to the Unearthed Arcana rules). Yeah, I know it sounds uber powerful. However, I think the item will settle down in power after 3 or 4 levels. Plus, he won't be able to add any enchantments for a LONG time, probably after 10th level, since we're going through the Red Hand of Doom.

I agree that I'd definitely scale it back and unlock powers as you go for a few reasons.

1) If you are using published adventures, they'll become a cakewalk.

2) That much magic power at that low of level completely overshadows class abilities. So the game becomes just about the *items* and much less about the *characters*.

3) Having a large power boost at one level (any level) and not having it advance at all is not nearly as fun as having something grow overtime. Each time something is unlocked it is new and interesting. Giving it all at once can start off overwhelming and then slide into boring.

I did something similar to this with one of my groups, but I used the Weapons of Legacy rules. That worked great for having the items slowly grow and therefore stay interesting, as well as having the items not overwhelm the characters' own class abilities. I'd absolutely suggest getting that book. Also, Bastion Press' Arms & Armor also has some rules for intelligent magic items (and their abilities) being spread out.

But I think Weapons of Legacy has the most robust rules for having an item increase in power over the life of the character. I did ignore the costs and just had the items be the primary loot they gained, but I'm not positive I'd do it that way again.

And if you want to start off at 1st rather than 5th (which Weapons of Legacy does), just slide the chart down. They will be more powerful than a standard party of 1st level PCs, but not nearly as uber-powerful as you were already planning.

 

[MadWand]

The first thing I'd think upon recieving an item like those described would be, "How much can I sell it for?", because I'd get a lot more use out of a few low-powered items than one single very powerful item. Also, because I hate it when my PC's carry around items that overshadow them. I'd rather play someone defined by their achievements than someone defined by some powerful item he's carrying. This goes double for intelligent items.

 

[Quartz]

A single intelligent item can be very good at low levels. Consider it a plot hook rather than an item per se. Like a Djinni Ring: "Avenge my last master and I will serve you well!" I it's a magic dagger, do the characters follow up on the tales it tells? Is it a liar? A braggart?

But multiple uber-powerful abilities are an absolute no-no.

 

[jontherev]

I agree that I'd definitely scale it back and unlock powers as you go for a few reasons.

1) If you are using published adventures, they'll become a cakewalk.

2) That much magic power at that low of level completely overshadows class abilities. So the game becomes just about the *items* and much less about the *characters*.

3) Having a large power boost at one level (any level) and not having it advance at all is not nearly as fun as having something grow overtime. Each time something is unlocked it is new and interesting. Giving it all at once can start off overwhelming and then slide into boring.

I did something similar to this with one of my groups, but I used the Weapons of Legacy rules. That worked great for having the items slowly grow and therefore stay interesting, as well as having the items not overwhelm the characters' own class abilities. I'd absolutely suggest getting that book. Also, Bastion Press' Arms & Armor also has some rules for intelligent magic items (and their abilities) being spread out.

But I think Weapons of Legacy has the most robust rules for having an item increase in power over the life of the character. I did ignore the costs and just had the items be the primary loot they gained, but I'm not positive I'd do it that way again.

And if you want to start off at 1st rather than 5th (which Weapons of Legacy does), just slide the chart down. They will be more powerful than a standard party of 1st level PCs, but not nearly as uber-powerful as you were already planning.

Excellent suggestions...thanks! I am actually doing this campaign for two separate groups...one group has 4 players: one knowledgable player, one who's learning, and one who basically is there to roleplay and throw dice because he'll never learn the rules. For group 1, I might keep the items as is, although your 2nd and 3rd points might convince me to change them. Group #2 though is for 6 players who all know the rules very well and I have several power gamers to contend with...so I'm definitely changing the items like you've suggested.

 

[jontherev]

The first thing I'd think upon recieving an item like those described would be, "How much can I sell it for?", because I'd get a lot more use out of a few low-powered items than one single very powerful item. Also, because I hate it when my PC's carry around items that overshadow them. I'd rather play someone defined by their achievements than someone defined by some powerful item he's carrying. This goes double for intelligent items.

Interesting. I don't think anyone in either group I'm dming would try to sell them. If they did, they'll have a tough time defeating the BBEG. It's a personal gaming choice...I personally love the idea (which is why I'm doing it!), and I think most or all of my players really like the idea as well. Plus, it's how I tied in the Slaughtergarde campaign to the Red Hand of Doom. I'll tone the items down so they unlock the abilities at certain levels, and I agree that it will be more gratifying each time the character levels and give them something more to look forward to. What I really like about this is how I'm adding feats that NEVER see usage in our campaigns. It should be fun to see some of these feats get some play.

 

[kenmarable]

What I really like about this is how I'm adding feats that NEVER see usage in our campaigns. It should be fun to see some of these feats get some play.

I have found that, too. For quite a lot of feats, the players would think they were alright, but not really be sure they want to take them considering all the alternatives. But when it's granted as a bonus feat (magic item, affiliation benefit, magic ritual, etc.), they will actually go out of their way to find uses for their little "prize".

 

[jontherev]

I have found that, too. For quite a lot of feats, the players would think they were alright, but not really be sure they want to take them considering all the alternatives. But when it's granted as a bonus feat (magic item, affiliation benefit, magic ritual, etc.), they will actually go out of their way to find uses for their little "prize".

Exactly. Not a problem with fighters who get TONS of viable feat choices with the extra books...but most of the other classes have tough choices indeed, especially with the number of cool feats out there now.