Intelligent Items at 1st level?

[SWBaxter]

Have any DMs out there ever run a campaign centered around magic items?

I played in a campaign - way back when 2E was young and fresh, 1989ish - where each character started with a level-appropriate magic item that would increase in power as we learned more about it. All were eventually artifact-level in power (and associated nastiness), and linked to the end of the world-type situation we were dealing with. It was pretty cool.

I'm handing out intelligent items that are pretty powerful at 1st level. Although they are each very nice, I'm trying hard to make them balanced. For example, the armor for the rogue is a +1 glamered mithril chain shirt of nimbleness with the shadow and silent moves abilities. It also can cast detect magic at will and use blur 3 times/day. There's also a few other things it can do that I've houseruled, like having skill points and gaining experience (eerily similar to the Unearthed Arcana rules). Yeah, I know it sounds uber powerful. However, I think the item will settle down in power after 3 or 4 levels. Plus, he won't be able to add any enchantments for a LONG time, probably after 10th level, since we're going through the Red Hand of Doom.

It does indeed sound pretty darn powerful. If I were to do that sort of thing, I'd probably use the intelligent item rules from the Complete Book of Eldritch Might (by Malhavoc). The system there gives allows items to earn XP (via their owners sacrificing XP on the item's behalf) and earn abilities, feats, and skills as they do so. As well, I'd try to go with non-weapon/armour items, so the player doesn't feel compelled to adjust his combat build around the item's abilities.

 

[Nifft]

It'd be cool if the items each had a bunch of powers, and when you were in the appropriate situation their powers would start to show.

For example, a sword. It is Masterwork.

When it first slays a Large Dragon, it gains an energy property (Flame, Shock, Frost, or Thundering).

When it first slays an Outsider, it gains an enhancement bonus (+1). The enhancement bonus increases when it first slays a Large Outsider, and again for a Huge Outsider. Or perhaps +1 for each pure alignment subtype (Chaotic, Evil, and Lawful).

When it is used to defend an Angel, it gains the Holy property.

When it is used to defend another by inflicting non-lethal damage, it gains the Merciful property.

- - -

Basically, tailor the special abilities to significant events. "This is the blade Runesoar, that slew the glabrezu Jaxvurk and cut the mighty dragon Tellamirth from the sky! You won't even notch his blade!"

I like that a lot. Next game perhaps.

Cheers, -- N

 

[molonel]

I don't like giving out items that powerful at low levels because it makes the character a walking coat rack for an item that is more powerful than he or she is. I prefer the characters be proud of their own abilities rather than lean that heavily on an item.

 

[jontherev]

It does indeed sound pretty darn powerful. If I were to do that sort of thing, I'd probably use the intelligent item rules from the Complete Book of Eldritch Might (by Malhavoc). The system there gives allows items to earn XP (via their owners sacrificing XP on the item's behalf) and earn abilities, feats, and skills as they do so. As well, I'd try to go with non-weapon/armour items, so the player doesn't feel compelled to adjust his combat build around the item's abilities.

Well, I did write up rules for the items, and it eerily matched the rules in Unearthed Arcana...not exactly, but close. They get XP at the same rate as the characters (without stealing from the party's pool of XP), and when they go up levels, they gain skill points and ability score increases just like living creatures do. I don't like the idea of characters giving up their own XP...as long as they are using the items, why shouldn't the item receive it's XP award? I don't "steal" from the party's pool in order to keep the pace of the game moving. I'm going to actually write up all 6 items and show exactly what power they get at each level. They will still be powerful, but the power will come gradually instead of all at once.

 

[jontherev]

It'd be cool if the items each had a bunch of powers, and when you were in the appropriate situation their powers would start to show.

For example, a sword. It is Masterwork.

When it first slays a Large Dragon, it gains an energy property (Flame, Shock, Frost, or Thundering).

When it first slays an Outsider, it gains an enhancement bonus (+1). The enhancement bonus increases when it first slays a Large Outsider, and again for a Huge Outsider. Or perhaps +1 for each pure alignment subtype (Chaotic, Evil, and Lawful).

When it is used to defend an Angel, it gains the Holy property.

When it is used to defend another by inflicting non-lethal damage, it gains the Merciful property.

- - -

Basically, tailor the special abilities to significant events. "This is the blade Runesoar, that slew the glabrezu Jaxvurk and cut the mighty dragon Tellamirth from the sky! You won't even notch his blade!"

I like that a lot. Next game perhaps.

Cheers, -- N

Interesting ideas, but I think they are too situational...what happens if they don't ever meet an Angel, etc.? I'd rather set the abilities and have them show up when the item's level unlocks it, just for simplicity. Plus, the players already know what they are getting and it gives them something to look forward to. Using your idea would probably mean keeping the latent powers hidden from the players, which could also present a problem if they wound up taking the feat that you were planning on putting on the item! Still, a very interesting idea.

 

[diaglo]

i think Crothian had a similar thread about this.

maybe he'll be by soon.

 

[luke_twigger]

My suggestion is to ensure it's clear that the intelligent items (i.e. you the DM) are in charge of how and when their abilties are used and they're not at the characters' beck and call i.e. the characters *request* something to happen. Of course at first the item does whatever the character asks in order to gain their trust. And so long as the item approves of whatever the character is doing it'll continue to help. But if the character tries to do something that doesn't mesh with the item's own agenda/ ethics/ morals/ plans then the spells don't happen, the shadow glamer stops working, etc. Make sure the players treat the items more like NPCs than extra character abilities.

 

[jontherev]

My suggestion is to ensure it's clear that the intelligent items (i.e. you the DM) are in charge of how and when their abilties are used and they're not at the characters' beck and call i.e. the characters *request* something to happen. Of course at first the item does whatever the character asks in order to gain their trust. And so long as the item approves of whatever the character is doing it'll continue to help. But if the character tries to do something that doesn't mesh with the item's own agenda/ ethics/ morals/ plans then the spells don't happen, the shadow glamer stops working, etc. Make sure the players treat the items more like NPCs than extra character abilities.

Yeah, it's a tall order, since I'm trying to make all of the items' alignments match the players. I have to stretch it a little, since all of the items were created by the same group of people. So, basically, as long as each character acts in accords with his/her alignment, I'm not going to worry too much about keeping a damper on the item powers.

Here is one problem I did have though last session: when the pcs are asleep, how do the items help wake the pcs? The items have only empathy, not speech, so I decided to reduce the Listen DCs by 5 to see if they awoke from the watching PC's yelling and sounds of battle. The items also have 30' vision. I figure the items don't need to sleep, so they saw the threat...so through dreams or something, they alerted the pcs. I guess that's a better question for the rules forum.

 

[painandgreed]

I started the campaign with the PCs having an intelligent sword. Perfect DMPC. Can talk and offer advice, but can't actually do anything. It started the adventure by presenting the hooks IIRC.

 

[Umbran]

The basic issue you'll most probably run into is that highly-powered items tend to lead to characters who can dish out more than they can take, or who can get themselves into more trouble than they can handle. This can be managed, but may be a pain in the neck.

The second basic issue you're likely to see is a sense of... anticlimax. You start them off with these amazing things, and then they've got nowhere to go, except to more amazing things. And eventually, you'll reach the limit of your own ability to make them seem particularly amazing.