D&D (2024) Interested in new dragon designs for 5e (5.5e or 6e)?

[Yaarel]

It's a side bar, with no mechanical effects. I don't consider that baked in myself. The same section in the DMG has multi-paragraph sections on Monotheism, Dualism, and Animism among others in the general text.

Monotheism are theisms, so the baked-in rules flavor works enough of the time.

I am unhappy with the way D&D 5e handles the possibility of a strictly Animistic setting.

Or even any kind of nontheistic settings.

 

[Yaarel]

However, the divine rank would be "Quasi-deity" with titans being a type of quasi-deity. And since might be manufactured, birthed by gods, or spring from their blood or other divine will or substance, I think it is really hard to think of them as a 'race.' I don't think the 5e tags want or need to be so tied-down and strictly defined.

Actually, their multiple methods of coming into existence is exactly why I think of the ‘titan’ as a race. This kind of race simply doesnt reproduce in the same way that other races do.

 

[Yaarel]

I don't think the 5e tags want or need to be so tied-down and strictly defined.

I feel the 5e rule that only one type is possible, and that a secondary type cannot count as a tag, creates an unnecessarily awkward situation where the tag must mean something specific. At least a tag cannot be a type.

Weirdly, it seems that deity is also not a type. And if anything should be a type, deity probably should be. At least for the sake of rules clarity.

Since deity isnt a type, but can be a tag, it makes it seems as if deity is a kind of race. Just like Eladrin can be fey (elf) or humanoid (elf), a quasideity can be celestial (titan), or presumably a lesser deity could be a fiend (archdevil).

I wish 5e removed all of this stuff from the core rules. Put it in a specific setting, where it can be thought thru more carefully.

 

[Yaarel]

I was hoping to be able to sort thru exactly what a type and tag are, so we could get back to the issue of which statblock descriptors to use for different kinds of dragons.

But it seems the rules for type and tag are either confused or confusing.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Honestly i dont think the writers REALLY REALLY know what monotheism and animism are anyway. At least MOST of them. But thats because most people dont. When i dm 3rd i make a habit of ignoring what they say about auch systems of fait's classification along those lines.

Case in point, abrahamic faiths including christianity are less a form of monotheism and more or less kynotheism.

True and pure monotheism is actually kinda rare.

And most people dont have a clue about animism. Thats because it was almost all the way died out by the time complex writing was a thing and long died out before complex and info dense historical records were being taken down and preserved.

 

[dave2008]

I got the Lolth stats online from a wiki, but it looks like it was a homebrew conversion from 4e.

I assume the Tiamat stats come from the adventure book?

It seems to be an oversight, that the stat block would fail to mention that Tiamat is a deity of some kind.

Yes from the Rise of Tiamat. I believe they are also in the new Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus adventure

I don't think it is an oversight (it has been printed this way in 3 different books I think). I think in 5e deities are not a "type."

 

[dave2008]

Monotheism are theisms, so the baked-in rules flavor works enough of the time.

I am unhappy with the way D&D 5e handles the possibility of a strictly Animistic setting.

Or even any kind of nontheistic settings.

Not sure what you are saying, the post you quoted noted Dualism and Animism are in the DMG more prominently than the divine ranks side bar.

 

[dave2008]

Actually, their multiple methods of coming into existence is exactly why I think of the ‘titan’ as a race. This kind of race simply doesnt reproduce in the same way that other races do.

A kraken is a titan and I assume they reproduce (there are stats for a juvenile kraken in GoSM). In fact, I think krakens are a race, but their tag is 'titan.' I think your logic on this is flawed based on the evidence. But again, it doesn't really matter.

 

[dave2008]

I wish 5e removed all of this stuff from the core rules. Put it in a specific setting, where it can be thought thru more carefully.

That would make things more clear and provide room for interpretation for other settings. However, don't mind a generic standard. Like everything in D&D I am happy to use fluff or not.

 

[Yaarel]

That would make things more clear and provide room for interpretation for other settings. However, don't mind a generic standard. Like everything in D&D I am happy to use fluff or not.

My gaming style treats fluff as rules − especially with regard to narrative adjudication. So for me, it is an endless nightmare to deal with 5e rules that constantly inject unwanted narrative rules (≈fluff) even within the mechanics themselves.

I don't think it is an oversight (it has been printed this way in 3 different books I think). I think in 5e deities are not a "type."

If a lesser deity isnt even listed as a tag, such as the case for Timat, then it seems conflictive when the rules list the quasideity titan as a tag. For the sake of consistency and clarity, it seems better to either remove the ‘titan’ tag from all statblocks, or alternatively change ‘titan’ into a special type, like Dragon and Giant. Alternatively, add various kinds of tags for other divine ranks, but actually, I would rather remove all references to polytheism from the core rules anyway.

In the meantime, I am happy enough to treat ‘titan’ as a race. The ‘titan’ race can reproduce by means of a ‘union’ or by means of being ‘manufactured’. For this reason, the race can become many different forms. So if the Kraken can reproduce by means of a ‘union’, I dont see a problem.

Note, according to the polytheistic setting, the origin of elves is from the blood of a deity: the race of elves themselves are analogous to the titan race, and the elves also became many different forms. Likewise, the origins of the dwarves were ‘manufactured’ by a deity. Accordingly, titans are merely a very powerful race.

I assume an Archfey counts as a ‘lesser deity’?

Anyways the rules for types and tags seem inconsistent at best.



In the end, I feel the best solution is to allow a type to also function as a tag when applicable. For example:
• a ‘Half-Dragon’ Half-Human is ‘humanoid (dragon, human)’
• a ‘Dragonborn’ is ‘humanoid (dragon)’
• an Eladrin is ‘humanoid (fey elf)’
• a ‘Tiefling’ is ‘humanoid (human, fiend)’
• a Faerie Dragon is ‘dragon (fey)’
• a Cuatl is ‘dragon (celestial)’

This approach allows the tags to truly be looser, and for the designer to mention whatever tag helps to clarify the relationship between one creature and an other.