Interesting combinations

[Cactot]

I was browsing through a couple books, and realized that changelings (EbCS) are the only Shapeshifter subtype that is both LA+0 and can be in an "alternate form" all day long every day. This in turn makes them the perfect match for Warshaper. It is terribly easy to get into at a low level, as well as providing extraordinary benefits.

For the low low price of choosing changeling as a race (no feat/skill requirements) and having a bab of +4 you can get:
lvl 1
Immunity to crits as well as natural weapons at the first level of this class (or +1 size category that stacks with just about anything if you already get natual weapons from a template or class)

lvl 2
+4str/con all the time

lvl 3
+5' of reach to any form you are in!!!!!

lvl 4
fast healing 2 and +10 hp heal with a full round action and a conc check

with these benefits i cannot see any reason why a melee changeling wouldnt invest 4 levels into this class.

at lvl 8 you would have +7bab, +4str/con, +5' reach, fast healing 2

now if you want an even better combo, add in feral template which gives
+10ft speed
+6 natural armor bonus
2 claw attacks 1d8dmg for medium size
lvl 1 - improved grab, darkvision 60', fast healing 2
lvl 4 - pounce, darkvision 60', fast healing 3
lvl 8 - rake, darkvision 90', fast healing 4
lvl 12 - rend, darkvision 120', fast healing 5

+4str, -2dex, +2con, -4int, +2wis
LA+1


so at lvl 8, (CL 9) you would have +8str, -2 dex, +6con, -4int, +2wis, as well as fast healing 6, improved grab, pounce, rake, darkvision 90', 2 claw attacks that do 2d6 dmg each at full BAB and str, plus you could add teeth to yourself to give you a bite attack at bab-5 for 1d6 + 1/2str.

seems pretty potent to me. if you continue with a full bab class you would eventually outdamage your claws with a 2h weapon unless you could somehow acquire the dexterity to pursue the 2weapon fighting chain, improved natural attack, and 2 levels of the bloodclaw master prc. (reduces 2wf penalty to 0 + gives you full str bonus to dmg with off hand attacks with those weapons)

if you had the stats to support it (19+dex)
you could have
1 - TWF
3- combat reflexes
6- Improved natural attack (claws)
9 - ITWF
12 - GTWF

Warblade 1-4
Warshaper 5-8
Bloodclaw master 9-10
Warblade 11-20

Which, if you could get enlarged somehow, would give you the following
Attack routine at lvl 12
(not including the str bonus)
+10/+10/+5/+5/+0/+0
for 4d6+str dmg
with a bonus rend of 8d6+2*str every time 2 claw attacks hit
as well as a 15' reach, fast healing 7, etc.

for a total potential damage of
48d6+ 12*str + 6* any enchantment your claws have

with 30 str (should be easy to acquire with the bonuses) that would be an avg dmg if all of them hit of 288dmg + 6* the bonuses on your claws (holy shocking flaming anybody? = P )


with 32 point buy the best i can come up with is
10 - str
16 - dex
4 - con
2 - int
0 - wis
0 - cha
which would leave you with
20str + 4 warshaper + 6 magic
16dex + 3 levels
14con + 4 warshaper
6int
10wis
8cha

the other problem i see is enchanting the claws, which seems to be more expensive/difficult than other types of magical weapons. Though an amulet of natural attacks +4/5 with enchanted claws +1 holy/shocking/flaming would massively up the damage output.

i am sure that someone else has come up with something like this before, but i have read quite a few pages back and havent seen it, so here we go.


how could i make this better?

 

[RigaMortus2]

Make a Druid w/ the Shapeshifting variant from PHB2...

 

[Cactot]

erm?

Make a Druid w/ the Shapeshifting variant from PHB2...

how would that be better?
when shapeshifted per the phb2 rules you lose all benefits of worn equipment
the lvl 12 forest avenger form gives you +12str, +12NA, but your natural attack damage die goes down to 1d8 from 3d6 (without being enlarged), plus your speed would go from 40' to 20'

the str bonus would really only be +8, as you would have to either bypass or delay warshaper, and you would lose out on 4 con, 2 fast healing, extra reach, and immunity to crits.

i would say equipment, +4con, +2 fast healing, +5' reach, immunity to crits and higher BAB is better than +8str (easily compensated for with magical +str and weapon enhancement equipment), and +12na (significantly less than magic armor + ring of protection + bonus to NA)
plus I really have no idea how dual wielding would work with slam attacks. To add insult to injury the shapechange variant completely prohibits spellcasting while shifted.

Also, i wasnt really looking for a completely different class/playstyle but more enhancements to the current build. Else the perfect answer to any sort of optimization build would be "become a kobold _____ and become punpun" or a less extreme example "why play a non-casting fighter, just play CoDzilla, they do everything better anyhow, as well as have spells"

if i was going go go along those lines druid/warshaper/MOMF/natures warrior would be far better.


alternatively if your suggestion was in order to qualify for the warshaper class through the shapeshifter variant, thats a brilliant idea.

feral dwarf - maxed con/str
shapeshifter druid 1
warblade/crusader? 2-5
warshaper 5-8
deepwarden 9-10
warblade/crusader 11-20

would have HUGE HP (32 con should be achievable (18 +2dwarf +2feral +4warshaper +6magic), as well as that con to AC (say +11) that stacks with heavy armors, plus good damage with +8 to str
he would have a base ac (with no magic) of 33...
9 plate
8 con
6 natural armor
10 base

 

[Plane Sailing]

I was browsing through a couple books, and realized that changelings (EbCS) are the only Shapeshifter subtype that is both LA+0 and can be in an "alternate form" all day long every day. This in turn makes them the perfect match for Warshaper. It is terribly easy to get into at a low level, as well as providing extraordinary benefits.

This is the classic case of 'supplement A' and 'supplement B' both considered balanced against the core books, but having unexpected consequences when used together. If I were a player I wouldn't expect to be able to take advantage of this, if I were a DM I'd never allow it!

 

[stonegod]

Yeah, we went round and round on this for Living Eberron. The final consensus was just not to allow it, though there were some balancing ideas. You can see the thread 'ere.

 

[RigaMortus2]

alternatively if your suggestion was in order to qualify for the warshaper class through the shapeshifter variant, thats a brilliant idea.

Yup, that's all it was. Just a suggestion for an alternate means to qualify for Warshaper. Incase you decide to be a different race, you can just pick 1 lvl of SS Druid and qualify.

I am currently playing a SS Druid/Warshaper with Improved Natural Attack (claw) and (talons). I also have Imp Trip and Imp Grapple. I am having a blast playing it. Mind you, I am playing in a very "low-magic" setting as well.