Interesting idea at gleemax-forums

[Aage]

I found this little idea on the gleemax forums, a.k.a. the wizard boards. It sounded like a nice idea to, and even though it will not end up in 4e, I might house-rule it.

What I think the game needs is a saving throw number, call it a Might save perhaps, that measures how resistant a creature is to being moved. Likely modified by STR and presumably size as well, so it would work for grappling as well e.g.
*Bull rushing: use your normal attack roll, but vs. their Might save instead of AC.
*Grappling: to start a grapple you roll your attack vs. their Might save instead of their AC. To break out of a grapple, they roll to hit your Might save.
*Tripping: roll an attack vs. their Might or Reflex, whichever is higher.
*Telekinesis, Gust of Wind: roll vs. their Might number (instead of Will)
*Control Body (psionic): roll vs target's Might.

Also made me think, perhaps there could be one defence for each ability?

 

[frankthedm]

A "Might save"? There has to be a joke in there somewhere.

Kinda like how a fighter's Will save is more of a "Won't Save".

 

[Sir Brennen]

This *might* be in 4E... what if (for example) a Bull Rush is resisted by 1/2 level + Str mod (+ Siz mod?) I could see this based on the tidbits we've seen so far.

"one defense for each ability" pretty much sounds like an ability check to me, which all suffer from scaling issues in 3x.

 

[Paraxis]

Thats a very good idea IMO.

I started thinking along the same lines when my friend was telling me about C&C, they tie a saving throw to each ability....then he went on to tell me they used old school AD&D saves, like rod-staff-wand, ect.. They just tied each of those 6 to the stats wich sounds horrible.

Will seems like it would get broken down alot though, would Charms and Diplomacy checks roll vs Charisma? What would roll against Int?

But the idea of a static DC based on Strength, Size and Level to break out of grapples, bull rush, and TK sounds perfect to me.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

But the idea of a static DC based on Strength, Size and Level to break out of grapples, bull rush, and TK sounds perfect to me.

That sounds a lot like BAB, with the exception that the size modifier is backwards.

 

[Aage]

Yeah, the Int one would be the hardest.

Stability (better name I think) on strength
Reflex on wisdom (or maybe dex, I'm torn. Or what about both? ^^)
Fortitude -> consitution of course
Will is Cha, IMO.

Int gets left out in the cold...

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

That sounds a lot like BAB, with the exception that the size modifier is backwards.

My thoughts exactly. The only "advancement" in this idea is that instead of being an opposed roll, the DC is based on the target's applicable mods+10.

Reducing the number of rolls from 2 to 1 is only an improvement to the extent that you want to reduce the greater random element of the opposed-roll process.

If you can't occasionally roll a 20 to escape the ogre's clutches when he rolls a 1, I don't call that an improvement.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Yeah, the Int one would be the hardest.

Against illusions. They should be "Will" saves, they're "logic saves".

Cheers, LT.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Too complex. We have skills, checks, and other things based on each stat -- why defenses, too.

Heck, I'm of the mind that four defenses is needlessly complex. Never use two numbers where one will do.

 

[Aage]

Too complex. We have skills, checks, and other things based on each stat -- why defenses, too.

Heck, I'm of the mind that four defenses is needlessly complex. Never use two numbers where one will do.

Referring to reflex + AC --> Reflex? If you do, I agree. Separating them is silly indeed.

And as for might/stability, it will be there... Of course, they probably will list it as a check under grapple/trip/etc rather than a defence, but it will most likely exist.