Intimidate in combat: viable?

[Nail]

BTW, we really do need to put the final nail into the coffin of the "Intimidate = I win" idea:

Is "surrendered" a condition?

What are the game effects of "surrendered"?

What is the duration of "surrendered"?

Etc.

 

[Nail]

I think it's safe to say the player will say something along the lines of "My character says 'surrender or die' -- I will now roll Intimidate versus Will." Is the option really there for the baddie to offer secret information or do something against its will?

What actions are included in the phrase "cow a target into taking some other action"?

I think it's pretty safe to say: "Quite a few, only one of which is dropping their weapon and pleading for mercy".

 

[Fundin Strongarm]

What actions are included in the phrase "cow a target into taking some other action"?

I think it's pretty safe to say: "Quite a few, only one of which is dropping their weapon and pleading for mercy".

It's also safe to say that it isn't "continue fighting as if nothing happened". What actions under "cow a target into taking some other action" aren't effectively "fight=over"? (I'm genuinely curious.)

 

[IanB]

It's also safe to say that it isn't "continue fighting as if nothing happened". What actions under "cow a target into taking some other action" aren't effectively "fight=over"? (I'm genuinely curious.)

All kinds of actions, outside of a fight. This bit of rules text is not only talking about in-combat use of Intimidate.

I'm still firmly in the 'this is a list of sample types of things Intimidate COULD be used for, in the right circumstances' camp, personally, it is not carte blanche to get every bloodied enemy ever to surrender.

 

[Nail]

It's also safe to say that it isn't "continue fighting as if nothing happened". What actions under "cow a target into taking some other action" aren't effectively "fight=over"? (I'm genuinely curious.)

Good Question! Perhaps to help out all the DMs out there that are cowed by players with PCs with super-high intimidate scores, we should make a list.

If a PC successfully intimidates a monster:

• The monster refuses to attack the intimidating PC for 1 turn,
• The monster only attacks the PC after one of its friends successful damages the PC,
• The monster uses a move action to shift away from the PC,
• The monster uses all its actions that round to move away from the PC,
• The monster is immediately slid 3 squares, with the placement determined by the DM,
• The monster suffers a -2 to attack the PC,
• The monster suffers a -2 to attack any PC,
• The monster uses a defensive power, rather than an offensive one,
• The monster offers to surrender, but readies an attack if the PC ignores the offer,
• The monster shifts away, offers surrender, but readies an attack if attacked by any one,
• The monster offers to switch sides,
• The monster does total defence for one turn,
• The monster delays until after an ally's turn,
• Monster shifts, then readies an attack which will only go off if the PC attacks it,
• Etc.

Others?

 

[Flipguarder]

Others?

The enemy explodes automatically damaging all its allies in close burst 8 for 100 damage. The exploding enemy also grants double experience (you scared the extra xp literally out of their body).

 

[Saeviomagy]

I like this idea Saeviomagy. However, being able to just scare minions to death is not to my liking. If you intimidate creatures I would think what would happen is that they become weakened. Maybe the it could look more like this:

Personally I think of minions reduced to 0 hps as not necessarily being eviscerated. Just unwilling to fight further. You could even add a rider that the power deals nonlethal damage (or whatever it's called where you decide if a foe lives or dies from that final blow).

It means that if a foe follows your intimidate with an inspiring word, those guys you intimidated out of the fight come back...

 

[Caliber]

...
Serioously, guys. Try Intimidate as written, before you slam it. You might find yourselves surprised... I've used it, and GMed it, and it works. Nothing breaks if you just run with it as written, as long as both you and your players are sane about it.

I agree with your larger point Eric, but I think what a lot of posters are trying to say here is that the OP's intentions are not sane about it. Not just the bonuses he has accumulated, but his apparent plans on how to use them. Maybe he and his group will be fine with it, but I think at least a few people would have problems with a 4th level character swinging a +21 Intimidate repeatedly against every enemy that gets bloodied.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

BTW, we really do need to put the final nail into the coffin of the "Intimidate = I win" idea:

Is "surrendered" a condition?

What are the game effects of "surrendered"?

What is the duration of "surrendered"?

Etc.

Smart ass.

No. The effects are probably listed under the definition of the word. We do still use dictionaries where you're from, correct? The duration is "as long as it needs to be". If you force someone to surrender out of fear, they're not going to start fighting you again unless conditions change.

On a side note, I'm glad I don't play in games where the only way you can end a fight is through recurring murder, or by meeting a specific (and seemingly arbitrary) win condition.

 

[Fundin Strongarm]

Good Question! Perhaps to help out all the DMs out there that are cowed by players with PCs with super-high intimidate scores, we should make a list.

If a PC successfully intimidates a monster:

• The monster refuses to attack the intimidating PC for 1 turn,
• The monster only attacks the PC after one of its friends successful damages the PC,
• The monster uses a move action to shift away from the PC,
• The monster uses all its actions that round to move away from the PC,
• The monster is immediately slid 3 squares, with the placement determined by the DM,
• The monster suffers a -2 to attack the PC,
• The monster suffers a -2 to attack any PC,
• The monster uses a defensive power, rather than an offensive one,
• The monster offers to surrender, but readies an attack if the PC ignores the offer,
• The monster shifts away, offers surrender, but readies an attack if attacked by any one,
• The monster offers to switch sides,
• The monster does total defence for one turn,
• The monster delays until after an ally's turn,
• Monster shifts, then readies an attack which will only go off if the PC attacks it,
• Etc.

Others?

Most of those are great if you're using Intimidate to do something contained in the part of the paragraph that says "Success: you cow a target into taking some other action" (which is what I asked about, thanks). What if you're using Intimidate to "Success: force a bloodied target to surrender"?

Eric Finley makes the point far more eloquantly than I have about a dozen posts up (while I was typing my first post). The 3 cases contained in the Success paragraph seem to be 3 different uses of the Intimidate skill and their outcomes, IMO.

"Cow a target" is great for "I scowl at the goblin and warn him not to attack me" so the target "takes some other action." But "force a bloodied target to surrender" is clearly (IMO) the appropriate response to "I scowl at the obviously beat up goblin and order him to lay down his weapon."