Wisdom Penalty
First Post
What is up, my brothers?
The Dealer
Let's get this out in the open: For me, 4e hearkens to 1e, and 1e was - is - my favorite edition of the game. I am happy to say I enjoy the new game and I don't feel I'm "betraying" anyone who still likes 3e. I played 3e since it came out, enjoyed the hell out of it, and am now ready to move on.
----------------
The Victim
Now, let's talk about..."Bill". Bill has been gaming as long as I have - 1978 or 1979. Bill has, however, had more of a connection with the real world than myself, and therefore has taken breaks (consisting of 3-6 years) from time to time. Nonetheless, he's a gamer. Always has been since we were in the basement back when Soul Train was still on television.
Bill quit 1e in the mid-80s for real life distractions.
He came back to play 2e. He quit again about 2 years later.
He came back to play 3e. He quit again about 1 year later.
He came back to play 4e. Who knows how long it will last?
-------
We were going to use a pre-gen from KotS for our first session (with Bill running one PC and me running a bunch of (N)PCs in his party). Bill didn't want to muck with our gaming group unless he found he liked the game, so a solo adventure with some helpful NPC party members was the best I could do. Not the besy way to showcase an edition that has as one of its finest features a team-oriented, dynamic approach to combat. I digress.
Let's look in on the conversation:
***
Bill: (flipping through print-outs of the KotS pre-gens) "Who the hell names their dwarf Kathra?"
Me: "Um. Bill, that's not important. She's just-"
Bill: "Wha?" (squints) "That's a she?"
Me: "Yes, Bill. Anyway, you can make her a him if you want."
Bill: "Whatever. I like the old art."
Me: "I know. Me too. Can you just pick one? What do you want to be - fighter, magic user, thief, etc?" (I find I still use 1e terms with Bill; it's easiest.)
Bill: "I don't know. I guess a fighter. Probably the easiest."
Me: "Uh, not really. They're all similarly easy - or similarly difficult."
Bill: (looks at me as if I have sprouted horns)
Me: "A fighter has powers now - called exploits. He can do some cool stuff in combat, other than just swing his sword."
Bill: "I remember - bull rush, trip, disarm. Right?"
Me: "No, not really. They are almost like spells, but instead they are combat maneuvers."
Bill: (nearly reaches out to touch my head to ensure horns aren't merely invisible) "A fighter casts spells? My lord. This is WoW."
Me: (faints)
Bill: "...wake up, wake up."
Me: (rubs eyes) "Don't ever say that again, please. It causes a physical reaction. Now, then, have you chosen you character?"
Bill: "I'll be...Kathro. Male dwarf. Fighter and, er, spellcaster."
Me: "Fine, fine. I'll be a cleric and a wizard so you have a leader-"
Bill: "I'll be the leader. I'm the only one playing. You're just running NPCs."
Me: "Leader is a role, now. Each character fills a role. A cleric fills the leader role, along with a warlord."
Bill: "So it's like a second class? Like dual classing?"
Me: (thinks 'No' but says: ) "Yes."
Bill: "Ok. I'll be the cleric then. You take the dwarf and the magic user."
***
(After twenty minutes, wherein the party is TPKed by the kobolds outside Winterhaven.)
Bill: (sits back) "Wow. Um...that was kinda arbitrary."
Me: (nervous) "Well, to be fair, you have two fewer PCs than you should have, and I only took one creature out. That made it hard, especially since you're new to 4e."
Bill: "...and I do mean arbitrary. Like that section in Tsojcanth that, if you enter the area through the caves, the module says you can never return or whatever. Remember that?"
Me: "Um. Yes, I do. 4E is harder, I think. But it may just be because we're both new-"
Bill: "Or that demon's mouth in Tomb of Horrors. If you went in there, you're dead. That was awesome when-"
Me: "Bill, dammit. This isn't the 80s. Do you like the new edition or not?"
Bill: (frowns) "I like parts of it. Too early to tell, I think. I like that we all got killed by a bunch of kobolds, to be honest with you."
Me: (nodding) "Sure, sure - I can do that again and again if you like."
Bill: (smiling) "That was fun. I liked the powers. I didn't like you don't provoke AOs from standing. Not sure I like monsters being able to shift around so much."
Me: "Yeah, well, those are kobolds. They can do that. Each monster has a different 'schtick'. That's theirs."
Bill: "Alright. What now? How 'bout I try out that warlock class. He's a...striker, right? Always liked doing damage."
Me: (grins) "Sure thing, man. We need to get you with the rest of the guys. Lots of fun in those combats with the whole group."
Bill: "How many players are there?"
Me: "Six."
Bill: (ughs) "Man, that will take too long. My turn comes up once an hour."
Me: "No, seriously, there's some stuff I don't like about this new edition but the speed of combat turns is undeniable. Your turn will come up a lot more quickly that what you were used to. Plus, we were mid-level when you stopped 3e; higher level play takes longer, and probably will take long in 4e too."
Bill: "Fine. Feels sorta good to roll a 20-sider again. I've tried all the other editions, why not this one?"
***
And thus ends our story. Bill is, shall we say, guardedly optimistic on 4e. That may be too strong. Perhaps a better way to say it is that he's willing to give it a try.
As for me, I'm happy that we have a new edition if, for no other reason, it lets me get back some of the guys I used to play with years and years ago.
Bill was first. Next is...Tom.
Wis
The Dealer
Let's get this out in the open: For me, 4e hearkens to 1e, and 1e was - is - my favorite edition of the game. I am happy to say I enjoy the new game and I don't feel I'm "betraying" anyone who still likes 3e. I played 3e since it came out, enjoyed the hell out of it, and am now ready to move on.
----------------
The Victim
Now, let's talk about..."Bill". Bill has been gaming as long as I have - 1978 or 1979. Bill has, however, had more of a connection with the real world than myself, and therefore has taken breaks (consisting of 3-6 years) from time to time. Nonetheless, he's a gamer. Always has been since we were in the basement back when Soul Train was still on television.
Bill quit 1e in the mid-80s for real life distractions.
He came back to play 2e. He quit again about 2 years later.
He came back to play 3e. He quit again about 1 year later.
He came back to play 4e. Who knows how long it will last?
-------
We were going to use a pre-gen from KotS for our first session (with Bill running one PC and me running a bunch of (N)PCs in his party). Bill didn't want to muck with our gaming group unless he found he liked the game, so a solo adventure with some helpful NPC party members was the best I could do. Not the besy way to showcase an edition that has as one of its finest features a team-oriented, dynamic approach to combat. I digress.
Let's look in on the conversation:
***
Bill: (flipping through print-outs of the KotS pre-gens) "Who the hell names their dwarf Kathra?"
Me: "Um. Bill, that's not important. She's just-"
Bill: "Wha?" (squints) "That's a she?"
Me: "Yes, Bill. Anyway, you can make her a him if you want."
Bill: "Whatever. I like the old art."
Me: "I know. Me too. Can you just pick one? What do you want to be - fighter, magic user, thief, etc?" (I find I still use 1e terms with Bill; it's easiest.)
Bill: "I don't know. I guess a fighter. Probably the easiest."
Me: "Uh, not really. They're all similarly easy - or similarly difficult."
Bill: (looks at me as if I have sprouted horns)
Me: "A fighter has powers now - called exploits. He can do some cool stuff in combat, other than just swing his sword."
Bill: "I remember - bull rush, trip, disarm. Right?"
Me: "No, not really. They are almost like spells, but instead they are combat maneuvers."
Bill: (nearly reaches out to touch my head to ensure horns aren't merely invisible) "A fighter casts spells? My lord. This is WoW."
Me: (faints)
Bill: "...wake up, wake up."
Me: (rubs eyes) "Don't ever say that again, please. It causes a physical reaction. Now, then, have you chosen you character?"
Bill: "I'll be...Kathro. Male dwarf. Fighter and, er, spellcaster."
Me: "Fine, fine. I'll be a cleric and a wizard so you have a leader-"
Bill: "I'll be the leader. I'm the only one playing. You're just running NPCs."
Me: "Leader is a role, now. Each character fills a role. A cleric fills the leader role, along with a warlord."
Bill: "So it's like a second class? Like dual classing?"
Me: (thinks 'No' but says: ) "Yes."
Bill: "Ok. I'll be the cleric then. You take the dwarf and the magic user."
***
(After twenty minutes, wherein the party is TPKed by the kobolds outside Winterhaven.)
Bill: (sits back) "Wow. Um...that was kinda arbitrary."
Me: (nervous) "Well, to be fair, you have two fewer PCs than you should have, and I only took one creature out. That made it hard, especially since you're new to 4e."
Bill: "...and I do mean arbitrary. Like that section in Tsojcanth that, if you enter the area through the caves, the module says you can never return or whatever. Remember that?"
Me: "Um. Yes, I do. 4E is harder, I think. But it may just be because we're both new-"
Bill: "Or that demon's mouth in Tomb of Horrors. If you went in there, you're dead. That was awesome when-"
Me: "Bill, dammit. This isn't the 80s. Do you like the new edition or not?"
Bill: (frowns) "I like parts of it. Too early to tell, I think. I like that we all got killed by a bunch of kobolds, to be honest with you."
Me: (nodding) "Sure, sure - I can do that again and again if you like."
Bill: (smiling) "That was fun. I liked the powers. I didn't like you don't provoke AOs from standing. Not sure I like monsters being able to shift around so much."
Me: "Yeah, well, those are kobolds. They can do that. Each monster has a different 'schtick'. That's theirs."
Bill: "Alright. What now? How 'bout I try out that warlock class. He's a...striker, right? Always liked doing damage."
Me: (grins) "Sure thing, man. We need to get you with the rest of the guys. Lots of fun in those combats with the whole group."
Bill: "How many players are there?"
Me: "Six."
Bill: (ughs) "Man, that will take too long. My turn comes up once an hour."
Me: "No, seriously, there's some stuff I don't like about this new edition but the speed of combat turns is undeniable. Your turn will come up a lot more quickly that what you were used to. Plus, we were mid-level when you stopped 3e; higher level play takes longer, and probably will take long in 4e too."
Bill: "Fine. Feels sorta good to roll a 20-sider again. I've tried all the other editions, why not this one?"
***
And thus ends our story. Bill is, shall we say, guardedly optimistic on 4e. That may be too strong. Perhaps a better way to say it is that he's willing to give it a try.
As for me, I'm happy that we have a new edition if, for no other reason, it lets me get back some of the guys I used to play with years and years ago.
Bill was first. Next is...Tom.
Wis
