Invisibility and Spiritual Weapon

[Lord Zardoz]

This came up in a game, and I just want some confirmation.

If someone casts Spiritual Weapon, and then goes invisible, does that character become visible when the Spiritual Weapon attacks a target?

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Infiniti2000]

You have to direct the spiritual weapon (otherwise it returns to you and hovers) so I say it breaks invisibility. To be sure, though, there are a number of gray areas where you can find support either way (some indirect direct-damaging spells like wall of fire that gets put up before any opponents arrive).

I think Hyp might have a general guideline for this, though, if he'll be kind enough to pipe in.

 

[Christian]

You have to direct the spiritual weapon (otherwise it returns to you and hovers) so I say it breaks invisibility.

You only have to direct it on the first round of the spell, though, unless you want it to change targets. So I'd suggest that unless you do this, the spell does not break an invisibility spell that's cast on a subsequent turn.

One could conceivably even finesse this, as Summon Monster/Nature's Ally spells don't break invisibility, even if you direct the summoned creature to attack a specific opponent. But I wouldn't allow that IMC ...

 

[Hypersmurf]

One could conceivably even finesse this, as Summon Monster/Nature's Ally spells don't break invisibility, even if you direct the summoned creature to attack a specific opponent.

That's always been one of the points I've argued. What's the difference between directing a Summoned monster - the effect of a spell, under your control - to attack an opponent, and directing a Flaming Sphere - the effect of a spell, under your control - to attack an opponent? In neither case are you targeting a creature, and in neither case are you making an attack roll; given that directing the Summoned monster is not considered an attack for the purposes of invisibility, surely directing a Flaming Sphere should be similar? And likewise Spiritual Weapon.

With Flaming Sphere, there's at least the argument that it's a spell opponents must save against; with Spiritual Weapon, there isn't even that.

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Interesting. I would have expected more to argue against it. My players used the same point of comparing the spell to a Summon Monster spell.

My point is that a Summoned Monster is intelligent on its own, and that when you direct it to someone, your just speaking. The only difference between telling the Summoned Monster to attack a target, and telling a Fighter in your party to attack someone, is that the Fighter may tell you to bugger off.

The Spiritual Hammer is not intelligent in the same way though. I may let it not break invisibility unless directed to a new target though.

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[DiceGolem]

The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. ... Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth.

A summoning spell doesn't target your foe, it brings around an extra creature. While the lasting effects of Summon Monster I can wander off at your command and attack willy-nilly, the spell itself doesn't actually target your foes. Spiritual Weapon doesn't actually target your foes either, technically... it just summons up a force sword/hammer/etc to strike willy-nilly. As in Hypersmurf's example, Flaming Sphere doesn't target your foes either, it simply creates a flaming ball you can roll around. But there's one fundamental difference.

When a summoned creature attacks, you have nothing to do with it. Sure, you just cast the spell to bring it to this useful spot on the Material Plane, but you don't directly control each of its attacks. A summoned creature listens to you talk, sure, but that's it. Telling a summoned creature to eat dirt isn't "directing a spell effect," but rather simply good-old, free action "talking."

Spiritual Weapon and Flaming Sphere both create an effect, but it's by your direct targeting that the effect works at all. I think it's that distinction that breaks your Invisibility; talking to a summoned creature (or an ally, like mentioned earlier) may be hostile, but it isn't attacking. Directly targeting a foe with an effect you created does.

I'd allow you to keep your invisibility if someone jumped onto the flaming sphere, though.

 

[Infiniti2000]

You only have to direct it on the first round of the spell, though, unless you want it to change targets. So I'd suggest that unless you do this, the spell does not break an invisibility spell that's cast on a subsequent turn.

Not quite true. It doesn't say what kind of action it requires (so we can assume a non-action, let's say), but it still requires direction: "If the weapon goes beyond the spell range, if it goes out of your sight, or if you are not directing it, the weapon returns to you and hovers." You could therefore, stop directing it (perhaps another non-action or even a free action), terminating it's attack sequence on a target for some reason. IMO, if spiritual weapon doesn't break invisibility, then neither should acid arrow. At the very least, if you don't let spiritual weapon break invisibility, does it break it on the first round? Redirections? If yes/no, what's the difference between the first round direction and subsequent round directions or redirections?

 

[Hypersmurf]

IMO, if spiritual weapon doesn't break invisibility, then neither should acid arrow.

Acid Arrow requires you to make an attack roll; Spiritual Weapon makes its own attack rolls. It's doing the attacking; with Acid Arrow, you're attacking, using the arrow.

-Hyp.

 

[d(sqrt(-1))]

Acid Arrow requires you to make an attack roll; Spiritual Weapon makes its own attack rolls. It's doing the attacking; with Acid Arrow, you're attacking, using the arrow.

-Hyp.

What about Fireball? You're not making an attack roll, it's up to the targets to jump out of the way...you just happened to put your fireball in that spot...

Mark

 

[Infiniti2000]

Acid Arrow requires you to make an attack roll; Spiritual Weapon makes its own attack rolls. It's doing the attacking; with Acid Arrow, you're attacking, using the arrow.

-Hyp.

But, it does so with your BAB and wisdom modifier. If, subsequent to the SW, you cast divine power and owl's wisdom, both will (somehow) affect the SW already cast. What's the connection?