invisibility vs. dispel magic

[Hypersmurf]

Personally, I wouldn't consider it attack in the confused Ally scenario. I don't think I would consider it an attack as an area effect dispel either, even if foes are included.

As you prefer, but note that if a foe is included in the area of a spell you cast, the text of invisibility explicitly considers it an attack.

-Hyp.

 

[Michaluk]

Detect magic should certainly be range personal as per similar spells such as darkvision and arcane sight.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

So, wait, if I played a character who considered everyone against him merely to be misguided allies who needed a little help to see the light (perhaps he thinks they are confused through nonmagical means and need assistance through a nonmagical dispel magic), would only targeted spells break invisibility? This isn't a particularly realistic situation, I know, I'm just curious about the hypothetical.

 

[lottrbacchus]

So, wait, if I played a character who considered everyone against him merely to be misguided allies who needed a little help to see the light (perhaps he thinks they are confused through nonmagical means and need assistance through a nonmagical dispel magic), would only targeted spells break invisibility? This isn't a particularly realistic situation, I know, I'm just curious about the hypothetical.

LOL! Tough love: Sneak attacking your new-found chum to remind him to quit carrying around the gold that should be yours; and you stay invisible!

 

[frankthedm]

Can anyone show rules that call out a confused character percieves his alies as foes?

I say allies still count as allies. Confusion is simply making you act out increadably BAD ideas.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

Can anyone show rules that call out a confused character percieves his alies as foes?

I say allies still count as allies. Confusion is simply making you act out increadably BAD ideas.

It doesn't matter, though, does it? As Hyp pointed out, the rules for invisibility mean the perception of the person invisible matters, not the perception of the victim.

 

[TYPO5478]

Can anyone show rules that call out a confused character percieves his alies as foes?

For that matter, can anyone point out a rule that specifically defines "foe" and "ally" objectively?

 

[Hypersmurf]

For that matter, can anyone point out a rule that specifically defines "foe" and "ally" objectively?

Neither 'foe' nor 'opponent' is in the glossary. Ally is:

[glossary]ally [/glossary]
A creature friendly to you. In most cases, references to "allies" include yourself.

Which is problematic, of course, since 'friendly' is a defined attitude:

[b]Attitude    Means                       Possible Actions[/b]
Hostile     Will take risks to hurt you Attack, interfere, berate, flee 
Unfriendly  Wishes you ill              Mislead, gossip, avoid, watch suspiciously, insult 
Indifferent Doesn’t much care           Socially expected interaction 
Friendly    Wishes you well             Chat, advise, offer limited help, advocate 
Helpful     Will take risks to help you Protect, back up, heal, aid

Given that your staunchest supporters will not be creatures friendly to you, but rather creatures helpful to you, if we assume that 'ally' in, for example, the Bless spell refers to the glossary definition and also that the 'friendly' in the glossary definition refers to the defined attitude, it would mean that a helpful creature would be unaffected by Bless...

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

A creature friendly to you.

More interesting to me is that this implies the importance lies in the other party's perception of you as a foe or ally, and not your own perception of said party. Could make for some interesting circumstances, and would appear to support the theory that a dispel magic cast on your ally, who is magically compelled to see you as an enemy, would in fact make you visible. While you might consider yourself an ally to them and thus consider them an ally to you, that party sees you as a foe. Odd.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

If a confused person sees/hears you casting Dispel Magic on them, and has the Spellcraft roll to recognize it, then it would certainly fit the profile of hostile actions against the confused person. Your invisibility would be gone, and they would attack you on their next turn.