Invisibility

[Scratched_back]

Hi all,

The most concerning time of all in our group, is the time that the GM can't easily house-rule something, or if he does, when some players object.

The most recent occurance of this was my use of "Improved Invisibility" last session. My figure remained on the floor plans (as it had to so the GM knew where I was and how he coulld move bad guys and the likes) but this lead to some awful metagaming from my party. "I'll sidestep five feet and attack" was the worst one I think. To complicate matter we were fighting Duergar who'd used their invis ability. The GM didn't put them on the board until they attacked because it was only relevant to him to know they're position.

The crux of the matter is, short of drawing a mini-map with grid references, I can't see how Inivisibility within the party can be logically implemented so that players don't take natural advantages form it.

I'm curious as to whether anyone knows a good solution for this?

 

[azhrei_fje]

I use a laptop-based gaming tool to track combat (www.DMGenie.com). I put my monsters on the map provided by the campaign manager so that I can keep track of them (if they're invisible).

If a PC becomes invisible, I allow the fig to stay on the map until the metagaming kicks in. At that point I make a decision as to how bad it has gotten. Typical infractions come from the spellcasters who want to fireball the bad guys and not get their companions (I allow spellcasters to precisely place spell effects; that thread has already been discussed elsewhere!). A mage using fireball who places it to avoid an invisible party member -- and who doesn't have see invisible -- is metagaming, and the penalties may kick in.

I have been known to pull a PC's fig from the battlemat and tell the player that they must remember where they were and they can tell me their movements by specifying directions from their current location. (I just number the surrounding squares 1-8 and the player can say, "1-1-1-2-3-3" to move six steps.)

This penalizes the player who became invisible, not the mage, and peer pressure usually works very well to convince the mage not to make the same mistake twice.

I have very few problems with metagaming IMCs.

It does become tricky, though, when there are multiple invisible party members on the board!

 

[Scratched_back]

It does become tricky, though, when there are multiple invisible party members on the board!

It's exactly that that's brought this whole thing up, with every enemy being invis and moving around before they attack.

I appreciate your input and everything about DM Genie. I've looked at that very program before myself but unfortunatley my DM is a technophobe and I couldn't sway him

Just interested how other parties handle similar scenarios, y'know?

 

[Goolpsy]

Not hitting an invisible party member by a fireball ain't that game breaking, its a bit of powergaming.. but still.

If u really really dont like that kind of gaming.. just say to him "Explain to me why you picked that Exact spot over a maybe better - had you not known your friend were there -, and if he cant give a satisfying answer... deny him of casting it there, or roll a dice to see where he casted it at random...


You could however say that the characters feelings for eachother has formed a telepathic link, making them able to sense eachother within 60 feet... (not communicate or anything)

 

[Sadrik]

Every round:
Have the invisible characters and creatures make a move silently check.
Then have all characters and creatures make a listen check opposing each invisible character or creature.

Use the results to determine who can "zone in" on the invisible creatures location.

So, if they "zoned in" on an enemy they can move to them and make an attack as they normally would, with the 50% miss chance.

If they didn't "zone in" have the player assume the invisible character or creature is in the last location they saw them in, unless logic would dictate otherwise. (expamples: Some one yelling he is over here or someone getting melee attacked by the creature)

Also, pay very close attention to the penalties and bonuses under the listen skill.

I have had similar arguments over the (old) darkness spell everybody can't see which is esentially the same as everybody is invisible.

 

[Li Shenron]

I'm curious as to whether anyone knows a good solution for this?

Your's a tricky problem... I'd probably have tried to take away your PC from the map and go with verbal description of what he's doing and where he's going. The other players would have heard, but usually wouldn't focus too much on where they think you are, since they have their own character to focus on (but of course, if you'd be very visible on the map, they could do it with ease).

Anyway, I think it's unlikely that someone fighting along with invisible friends would risk hurting them with fireballs, at least if they aren't evil or very clumsy characters.

 

[WampusCat43]

Every round:
Have the invisible characters and creatures make a move silently check.
Then have all characters and creatures make a listen check opposing each invisible character or creature.

Use the results to determine who can "zone in" on the invisible creatures location.

So, if they "zoned in" on an enemy they can move to them and make an attack as they normally would, with the 50% miss chance.

If they didn't "zone in" have the player assume the invisible character or creature is in the last location they saw them in, unless logic would dictate otherwise. (expamples: Some one yelling he is over here or someone getting melee attacked by the creature)

Also, pay very close attention to the penalties and bonuses under the listen skill.

I have had similar arguments over the (old) darkness spell everybody can't see which is esentially the same as everybody is invisible.

I came into this forum looking for something just like this. My players just fought an invisible stalker in the Age of Worms campaign, and it was simply a PITA. Now one of my players (whose character died shortly afterward) has come up with a pixie character. Even bigger PITA. He knows it's not going to last long (only 15 hp at 8th level), but it's already pretty much spoiled an encounter with one of the BBEGs.

Something like what you're describing sounds like a good compromise for both sides.

 

[irdeggman]

Same problem comes about whenever using grid maps at all.

Counting the number of squares and figuring out an area of effect spell. Yes the caster would know how far his spell can go and the area it encompasses - but he still has to "guess" at distances. I mean there isn't those nice little square lines every 5 ft for him to use.

Or ranged attacks and increments - let's see that is at 110 ft so it is in my second increment for my composite longbow, that is -2 on my attack roll.

We just have to grin and bear it since it so prevalent.

 

[Mavrik]

If you really wanted to confuse people with invisibility then you could use multiple figures... have 6 figures and move them at each turn you have then your party wouldn't know which was which.... if you attacked, or they tracked you (listen or spot) then you could remove all the figures and start again... Only tell the Dm which one is the real figure.

A bit complicated but could be fun


We have a good group bit is hard to play without meta gaming sometimes, the enounters are hard and require you to play to the max sometimes. We let it slide occasionally but peer pressure is the best form of regulation. If the problems is with the DM too, then the figures work well... the DM does'nt know which one is you and can attack without lots of thought or bias

Mav