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[Iron Heroes]Nixing the last x/day ability, Mana
- Thread starter Macbeth
- Start date
Bagpuss
Legend
I think some flaws with the recovery idea for mana have been pointed out on Monte Cook's forum. IE: That it slows down the game as it encourages the party to rest a wait while the arcanist charges up ready for the next battle. I'ld be more inclined to go with a token mechanic myself (although I've not worked one out yet)
The advantage of this is a arcanist would be able to pull of low level spells early in a battle, but later they would be able to carry out more powerful spells. The melee characters would need to protect the arcanist while he builds up tokens (proably via some concentration use).
The advantage of this is a arcanist would be able to pull of low level spells early in a battle, but later they would be able to carry out more powerful spells. The melee characters would need to protect the arcanist while he builds up tokens (proably via some concentration use).
Last edited:
Will
First Post
I've been contemplating how I'd do arcanists in Iron Heroes. I'm really not happy with the magic system, though I like the other elements of arcanists (like Pact and aspects).
Right now, my thinking is that I'd like a series of abilities the character can select (healing, invisibility, influence people, whatnot), have 'out of combat' general ability, then use tokens for more immediate effects. Magical healing could be fixed by using 'per day' limits, like regular healing.
I'm also thinking of making this magic essentially expansions of skill use, though still debating how to pull it off; that is, magical healing would allow heal checks to do more, magical Bluff would allow, say, 'you do a Bluff silently,' and so forth.
Lastly, I'd allow arcanists to use incantations from Unearthed Arcana, for the big/slow/dramatic spells that Conan or Grey Mouser swings in to interrupt...
Right now, my thinking is that I'd like a series of abilities the character can select (healing, invisibility, influence people, whatnot), have 'out of combat' general ability, then use tokens for more immediate effects. Magical healing could be fixed by using 'per day' limits, like regular healing.
I'm also thinking of making this magic essentially expansions of skill use, though still debating how to pull it off; that is, magical healing would allow heal checks to do more, magical Bluff would allow, say, 'you do a Bluff silently,' and so forth.
Lastly, I'd allow arcanists to use incantations from Unearthed Arcana, for the big/slow/dramatic spells that Conan or Grey Mouser swings in to interrupt...
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if the circumstances are that they can rest, if time or situation isn't an issue, they don't have a need to press on, then it makes perfect sense for them to do so.
it wont slow down play since, if they are right and there is no risk involved, the "you rest" takes seconds to resolve.
In my games, there is a mix. often there are reasons to push on, whether it be specific time contraints of the plot or simply "they will figure out we are here so we better get done before they find us" etc. On the occasions when time is the party's ally, I expect them to make use of it.
If they press on and go in tired (low mana or low HP) when there is no reason for them to do so, they will likely suffer for it.
So i don't see this as a problem, but it certainly could be for some.
But, as you said, we haven't had one worked out yet so, until we do have one, there is really not much to say about it.
Its tough to listen to a description of a system thats not in existence yet and comment effectively on it.
Obviously the system shouldn't in essence shackle in this one "script for how fights go" ("defend the mage until his big whammy spells is up".) But for me the bigger question is for out of combat magic, where there aren't enemies to require tasking everyone else to "defend the mage" duties and the mage can gather mana tokens pretty much at will.
Obviously, in theory all these problems can be solved, but in practice we wont know until it happens.
Hmm... not an issue for me.Bagpuss said:
if the circumstances are that they can rest, if time or situation isn't an issue, they don't have a need to press on, then it makes perfect sense for them to do so.
it wont slow down play since, if they are right and there is no risk involved, the "you rest" takes seconds to resolve.
In my games, there is a mix. often there are reasons to push on, whether it be specific time contraints of the plot or simply "they will figure out we are here so we better get done before they find us" etc. On the occasions when time is the party's ally, I expect them to make use of it.
If they press on and go in tired (low mana or low HP) when there is no reason for them to do so, they will likely suffer for it.
So i don't see this as a problem, but it certainly could be for some.
I haven't seen one yet that i like.Bagpuss said:
But, as you said, we haven't had one worked out yet so, until we do have one, there is really not much to say about it.
Bagpuss said:
Its tough to listen to a description of a system thats not in existence yet and comment effectively on it.
Obviously the system shouldn't in essence shackle in this one "script for how fights go" ("defend the mage until his big whammy spells is up".) But for me the bigger question is for out of combat magic, where there aren't enemies to require tasking everyone else to "defend the mage" duties and the mage can gather mana tokens pretty much at will.
Obviously, in theory all these problems can be solved, but in practice we wont know until it happens.
Macbeth said:
The flavour text portrays it as more of a last-resort than as a primary tool, so I wouldn't say the arcanist is intended to rely on it (though without word from the designer it's hard to argue intention, and even with such word one can always question whether result met intention.)
Mustrum_Ridcully
Hero
There are two things you can do to fix this:Staffan said:
1) Healing spells don´t heal damage, only reserve points, or they simply make a faster transfer of reserve points possible. This limits the healing to the already available amounts. Healing spells to deal ability damage/drain or similar effects could allow a certain "conversion" rate from reserve to hp.
2) You can´t maintain a unlimited amount of spells. Maybe the highest spell mastery rank determines the maximum amount of spells you can support. Any additional spell requires Concentration, and if you try to go beyond that limit, other spells end (beginning at the highest level spell, until you are below the limit again). Even a 20th level Arcanist couldn´t maintain more than 10 spells this way ...
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I designed a house rule using mana tokens, but I am still not certain it is balanced.
You have starting tokens at each encounter equal to half your level (round down, similar to Hunter starting tokens). You can gain further ones by making a Concentration check (maybe a Spellcraft check might be a good alternative, since spellcraft is currently a bit underused), depending on your result you gain one, two or four tokens. If you fail or don´t make such a check, you lose one token (but go never below your starting pool, unless you are already below that value due to spending them for spells and so on).
I also added that you can´t channel mana longer than 1 round per point of Intelligence score - if you do not stop channeling after that for one minute, you take intelligence strain.
The token losing mechanics combined with the strain rule is there to avoid a arcanist to run around fully "charged" all the time.
It still opens up the possiblity that everytime a arcanist plans on entering a room he suspects enemies in, he will channel all mana he can get.
All other rules stay as before, just replace mana points with mana tokens and remove the daily mana limit.
