Iron Heroes...what's your opinion?

[Malachias Invictus]

I really recomend not starting at high levels with your first IH game.

Also, the character creation is slower the first time (new ruleset), but it quickly becomes easier.

Agreed 100% on both. My first session was mostly filled with people asking questions about their characters, stunts, etc. Even by the fourth session, we are still getting our "sea legs" with the wide variety of stunts and skill challenges that are available.

MI

 

[iwatt]

I think iwatt's advice is worth listening. The Iron Heroes system is not difficult to grasp, but it does have its own particularities here and there (skills become much more important because of the Stunt System, there are Challenges by which you can accomplish, with Stunts, much more things than what standard D&D characters can do, the pools change from uses per day, attacks of opportunity as simplified but slightly different, etc).

Exactly. I think the hardest part of IH is deciding what to play. Once you have the archetype, it's easier to build from the ground up. At first read it seems you'll have to deal with 10 differnt token pools, but the truth is unless you are a Hunter/Archer/Executioner with dodge, combat expertise, and all the tactical feats, you'll at most be dealing with 1 or 2 token pools (if any).

Mastering Iron Heroes really settled down my doubts about running IH, since the Villain classes are very flexible yet easy to use at the same time.

 

[Odhanan]

I disagree strongly. The balance between the schools is utterly atrocious. Fortunately, the various modifications in the Spellcasting Wiki seem to handle "default Iron Heroes" magic pretty well, *and* throw in other spellcasting methods and styles to boot. I just wish there were more of us working on variants.

What can I say, M.I?

I can just precise that I really think, like you, that the spellcasting wiki is useful and an excellent asset to the IH fans out there. Or I wouldn't have supported the idea in the first place. The magic system of IH can be taken out and replaced by a variant easily: that's a strength to the game, IMO. No doubt about it. I may just adopt one of the wiki's variants at some point.*

I can also precise that I did not run any complete test of the Arcanist as written. Like with other aspects of IH, you and I could be very surprised by the results.

* About this issue:

Don't forget that more often than not, you are going to be hit with a backfire which damages you rather than your opponent (and sometimes does not allow a save).

After writing this post, I read in depth the variant of Jeremy Puckett from the spellcasting wiki. I think of using his modifications/development of Conjuration, Evocation and Necromancy: it answers to your concerns by not counting the Mana spent on the dice of damage as double expenditure for the channeling check.

 

[Bagpuss]

IDon't forget that more often than not, you are going to be hit with a backfire which damages you rather than your opponent (and sometimes does not allow a save).

I don't see how its going to be 'more often than not' if you are sensible with picking the DC value for your spells. And when things go really bad, I'ld much rather get a major disaster with a Evocation spell than an equally difficult Conjucation spell.

 

[Malachias Invictus]

LOL
A large majority agree that the magic system is either unfinished or flawed. Personally I like it and would use it as a base for a more developed, flavourful spellcasting (we are discussing of a variant with Wiz of Ice and other friends using spirits and possession for spellcasting.

I like that idea. Have you ever read GURPS Voodoo: The Shadow War? It has a great magic system based upon spirits. GURPS Spirits has a similar one. I would not mind seeing something along these lines for Iron Heroes.

Really a cool idea. I'd like us to develop it and build on the existing system rather than destroy it,

Not me. The system did not fall far enough from the tree, as it were. It is still too mired in "D&D think" and not very balanced.

but haven't been tinkering the idea enough just as of yet - too much material to read for the 14th).

Great job over there, by the way. In a year, the Iron League is going to be *huge* with fan-generated goodness.

MI

 

[wizofice]

I like that idea. Have you ever read GURPS Voodoo: The Shadow War? It has a great magic system based upon spirits. GURPS Spirits has a similar one. I would not mind seeing something along these lines for Iron Heroes.

Oy! Another book to get.

 

[Malachias Invictus]

Pick your answer from the following.

a) There isn't one.
b) The various schools of which one you specialise in arn't balanced against each other.
c) Magic is too weak.
d) Magic is too strong.
e) Does fit well with the other classes.

It scares me when some folks say there isn't a problem with the magic system. The *author* says there is a problem with it (or, rather, multiple problems).

There are lots of houserule fixes and complete rebuilds available if you check Monte's board,

Here, I will make it easier: Iron Heroes Spellcasting Wiki

I imagine if the game had been published without the magic rules and no arcanist that there would actually have been less complaints...

Agreed. I seem to recall Mike saying he wanted to dump it, actually.

MI

 

[Malachias Invictus]

Oy! Another book to get.

GURPS Voodoo: The Shadow War is probably my favorite GURPS book, and I have a ton. It is, unfortunately, out of print. Spirits still has the magic system, though.

MI

 

[wizofice]

GURPS Voodoo: The Shadow War is probably my favorite GURPS book, and I have a ton. It is, unfortunately, out of print. Spirits still has the magic system, though.

MI

Spirits is by Stephen Kenson, another plus.

 

[Malachias Invictus]

I don't see how its going to be 'more often than not' if you are sensible with picking the DC value for your spells.

Without lessening the DC values for Evocation, you are far better off using your Aspect of Power. Even at full power, you are simply not throwing around enough damage to pull your weight against other Iron Heroes characters of your level, and you will run completely out of steam *for the day* in a few rounds.

And when things go really bad, I'ld much rather get a major disaster with a Evocation spell than an equally difficult Conjucation spell.

Sure. However, look at the moderate disasters. "Spell doesn't work" vs. "Become the target of your effect." Hardly equitable.

MI