Is a Monks Abundant Step astral or ethereal travel?

[arbados]

The reason I am asking this is I am planning on using the forcecage spell in an upcoming game and one player is a monk who has the abundant step (dimension door) ability. I was curious as to whether they would be able to escape such a spell if they were the target?

The spell specifically states that teleportation and other means of astral travel are able to escape, but says that forms of ethereal travel cannot penetrate.

 

[gamerprinter]

Not sure...

Not absolutely sure, but I think its like teleport, thus astral not ethereal. Ghost step and related Ki powers are ethereal, not Abundant Step.

GP

 

[HolyMan]

Forcecage says "Teleportation and other forms of astral travel provide a means of escape,"

And Abundant Step says, "...a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door."

Dimension Door is School:conjuration(teleportation) so I would say a monk with the ability could escape.

now if it were me I would have it so when he did try to get out their would only be one place he could go (or have it seem that way), but that floor isn't floor at all. While were out casting forcecages why not some illusionary floor covered pit traps as well. But then again I am an evil DM.

HM

 

[James Jacobs]

I could be wrong... but I believe in Pathfinder teleport doesn't use the astral or the ethereal plane. It's just instantaneous non-specified dimensional travel that can pretty much work anywhere that specific spells like dimensional lock or forbiddance aren't at.

In any event, teleport effects absolutely allow someone to escape from force effects like forcecage; that's one of the expected and built-in "counters" to that type of spell. Maze is probably a better method to give the monk a bit of a time out.

 

[ruemere]

I could be wrong... but I believe in Pathfinder teleport doesn't use the astral or the ethereal plane. It's just instantaneous non-specified dimensional travel that can pretty much work anywhere that specific spells like dimensional lock or forbiddance aren't at.

In any event, teleport effects absolutely allow someone to escape from force effects like forcecage; that's one of the expected and built-in "counters" to that type of spell. Maze is probably a better method to give the monk a bit of a time out.

Quoting Magic...

Teleportation: A teleportation spell transports one or more creatures or objects a great distance. The most powerful of these spells can cross planar boundaries. Unlike summoning spells, the transportation is (unless otherwise noted) one-way and not dispellable.

Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation.

I agree that removal of the second paragraph would make the life easier for many planar travelers (and make the game rules more elegant).

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[James Jacobs]

Quoting Magic...


I agree that removal of the second paragraph would make the life easier for many planar travelers (and make the game rules more elegant).

Regards,
Ruemere

Well, there ya go.

Which answers the OP's question at the same time—a monk's abundant step uses the astral plane.

 

[arbados]

Great. These answers have helped me solve the riddle. I will certainly have to come up with a little alternative to the plan if the monk realizes he can escape. I can be an evil DM at times as well!

Thanks!

Since we are on the topic of a monks Abundant Step I have another question. Let's say the monk is underground traveling through a network of natural tunnels and caves within the underdark. They are equipped with darkvision, cast by their friendly cleric, and that is primarily their main visual source with an occasional light spell cast upon the lead party members weapon. They have passed by miles and miles of plain and commonplace caverns. 99% being pretty identical to each other with slight variations due to natural differences (nothing out of the ordinary).

The monk desires to use abundant step to shift to another cave which they have previously passed (once only and casually). Are they able to do this? Are their any restrictions or things which would disallow this? What are the allowances for this type of action? Can the monk simply use this ability to shift back to wherever they have passed regardless of how well they can visualize the area.

The spell outlines that they must visualize" the area. How well do they need to be able to visualize the area or remember it to be able to shift back to a precise location within the miles of natural caves they have traveled through?

Thoughts?

 

[Nikosandros]

I agree that removal of the second paragraph would make the life easier for many planar travelers (and make the game rules more elegant).

Indeed. I've never fully understood why in 3rd edition teleport requires the Astral Plane and I've always house-ruled that part away... this also allows me to keep the Astral separated from the Inner Planes like it is in AD&D cosmology.

 

[ruemere]

[...]

The spell outlines that they must visualize" the area. How well do they need to be able to visualize the area or remember it to be able to shift back to a precise location within the miles of natural caves they have traveled through?

Thoughts?

Just state your intent.

"You always arrive at exactly the spot desired—whether by simply visualizing the area or by stating direction."

There is no chance for a mishap unless the latter method of stating intent was used imprecisely.

Regards,
Ruemere