Is a Shadowrun Conversion to 5e D&D even viable?

[Negflar2099]

I wasn't sure where to put this since I don't have any actual conversion material or anything to share. I don't even know why I would want to bite off a project like this but do you think it would be viable to create a conversion to 5e D&D for Shadowrun?

The reason I ask is I've always been intrigued by the Shadowrun setting but not so excited by the rules. I was thinking about converting it to 5e but I wasn't sure if it would work. I think the classes more or less would (as long as firearms didn't outdo spell damage) but what about the races? Most races get weapon training of some kind. Would you replace that with modern weapons? Replace it with a new feature entirely? Leave it be?

And what about gnomes? The Rock gnome can make little gadgets, which aren't that hot today. Gnomes can basically make a lighter, a music box and a wind-up toy. Not that great when I can buy all three from the corner store.

And then how do you represent riggers and deckers/hackers? I was thinking about a single class, maybe call it Savant, that would have both of those plus medics and maybe engineer types as sub-classes but I'm not sure how viable that would be. Maybe give them special dice that they can add to skills? I don't know.

And about equipment. I've played around with some firearms rules but the feedback I got wasn't great and honestly my PCs aren't using them. I think that problem would be even worse with more modern firearms. And that leaves aside things like alchemy, which just feels like it doesn't fit in the setting. Do they even have magic potions in Shadowrun?

Just looking for basic thoughts here. I would need to really get this down before I put in the work a conversion like this would require.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

You could make a cyberpunk flavored D&D that way, but you could never make Shadowrun. The setting and mechanics are deeply entwined in Shadowrun and both differ quite extensively from D&D.

That said, Shadowrun is a complex game, so I understand the desire for a simpler and more familiar rule system. But I still recommend is playing with the actual rules, at least long enough to really understand what conversions might be worthwhile.

 

[DMZ2112]

I wasn't sure where to put this since I don't have any actual conversion material or anything to share. I don't even know why I would want to bite off a project like this but do you think it would be viable to create a conversion to 5e D&D for Shadowrun?

You can theoretically convert any setting to any system, but I have heard it said -- and I tentatively agree -- that Shadowrun and its system are more entwined than most.

Taking the obvious example, magic operates differently in Shadowrun. Astral perception and projection are key roles of the spellcaster in Shadowrun while in D&D the part the Ethereal Plane (the system equivalent) plays in the narrative is so deprecated it's almost obsolete. Shadowrun spells inflict fatigue and potentially damage upon the caster. Magical healing only works once per injury. All Shadowrun spellcasters can heal. Spirit summoning and binding and services.

All of these things are not just rules, they're key elements of the setting. Truly converting Shadowrun to D&D5 would be incredibly difficult. You could instead adapt D&D5 to the Sixth World, with the understanding that a lot of flavor will be lost in the transition. Clerics are not shaman. For that matter, wizards are not mages.

And then how do you represent riggers and deckers/hackers? I was thinking about a single class, maybe call it Savant, that would have both of those plus medics and maybe engineer types as sub-classes but I'm not sure how viable that would be. Maybe give them special dice that they can add to skills? I don't know.

All other concerns aside, riggers are not deckers and vice versa. Particularly in a D&D conversion you would need to give them completely different sets of class abilities. The rigger is a wheelman/pet class, the decker is a combat rogue who lives in a parallel reality. I don't think you could reasonably capture these under a single class. Subclasses should supplement, not reinvent.

And about equipment. I've played around with some firearms rules but the feedback I got wasn't great and honestly my PCs aren't using them. I think that problem would be even worse with more modern firearms. And that leaves aside things like alchemy, which just feels like it doesn't fit in the setting. Do they even have magic potions in Shadowrun?

Honestly, what makes firearms work in Shadowrun (and many other games) but not in D&D is hit points. Shadowrun calls them something different but what is ultimately important is that it just has a lot fewer of them, and they're hard to increase. If you get shot, it's bad news. There is no taking it on the chin in Shadowrun. There is no muscling out the dragon breath. You could emulate this phenomenon in D&D by simply using Constitution as a wound total instead of using hit points. I would bet that you'll even see a rule that could be adapted for this purpose in the DMG.

But I think the more relevant point here is the nature of Shadowrun equpiment. It's not Shadowrun without a Ruger Super Warhawk or an Ares Predator. It's not enough to just have a "heavy pistol" the way you have a "longsword." Choice of equipment is a major part of character customization in Shadowrun, and that means a lot of equipment conversion into a system that really isn't designed to support that kind of variation in offering. A sword is a sword is a sword, compared to all the variables inherent in a firearm. Caliber, mounts, magazine, mechanical reliability, barrel length -- the list goes on.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Honestly, your best bet for finding a different system to convert Shadowrun (or any other RPG setting to) to is to use one of the "toolbox" RPG systems. HERO could handle it, probably GURPS as well. So might something like M&M or Savage World.

 

[Fion]

Personally if my group wants to play Shadowrun I bring out the rather well done conversion for Savage Worlds.

In other words my group hates Shadowrun for it's overbearing mechanics, but loves the settings. I suppose it could be done in 5e but D&D has never been really all that modular.

 

[Negflar2099]

A lot of great replies. I really appreciate it. I figured it would probably be a bad idea. I guess for me I was trying to avoid having my group have to learn a new system at all. They really like 5e and I have some serious newbies so switching to a new system might be a bit much to ask.

I get that 5e isn't modular. It isn't meant to be. But I've seen at least one person who's converting Star Frontiers to 5e and another whose doing it for Star Wars. I figured if that would work maybe Shadowrun, but I get everybody's point. The setting and the mechanics are very intertwined.

I think I'll find another project.

That said, I don't know if I agree that riggers and deckers are that different that they couldn't be the same class. I mean Assassins and Thieves are in the same class, and for Fighters and Swordmages are in the same class. 5e has a clear imperative to reduce the number of classes. I can't see there being a variety of riggers or a bunch of subclasses for deckers. That's what made me think they would be better in a single class.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

 

[Wrathamon]

It would work for Shadowrun... I dont see why it wouldnt.

Just make some new classes and sub classes (remove classes and races that dont work in the setting)

Add in some new systems for how the deckers and such would work.

Remove some of the easier healing rules (or leave it alone) to make the game more deadly at higher levels. Probably some options in the DMG when it comes out to make this easier.

Make use of astral projection more maybe add a new class abilty for it, make it more accessible or add a new sub-system for it.

It would be work its not just adding guns and replacing some magic items with cyberware.

I wouldnt say its difficult but its a lot of stuff that is getting touched. It's work.

You could easily do a quick and dirty "hack" to play D&D in a cyberpunk world.

 

[GMMichael]

You can theoretically convert any setting to any system

A key consideration behind the following plug for my sharebrewed game! Instead of 5e, why not use a different RPG that's fast, flexible, and free? The third playtest version of Modos RPG is beginning its evolution here.

Taking the obvious example, magic operates differently in Shadowrun. Astral perception and projection are key roles of the spellcaster in Shadowrun while in D&D the part the Ethereal Plane (the system equivalent) plays in the narrative is so deprecated it's almost obsolete. Shadowrun spells inflict fatigue and potentially damage upon the caster. Magical healing only works once per injury. All Shadowrun spellcasters can heal. Spirit summoning and binding and services.

In version 1.3, each character has a metaphysical attribute, which can be freely represented as that character's astral presence. Spells use spell points, which are analogous to damage on a metaphysical level. There are no injuries unless a PC chooses to roleplay one (which could earn him a bonus or two). All spellcasters can heal.

All other concerns aside, riggers are not deckers and vice versa. Particularly in a D&D conversion you would need to give them completely different sets of class abilities. The rigger is a wheelman/pet class, the decker is a combat rogue who lives in a parallel reality. I don't think you could reasonably capture these under a single class. Subclasses should supplement, not reinvent.

The core rules do not require advancement by class, so you can create a rigger, decker, ricker, degger, or what-have-you.

Honestly, what makes firearms work in Shadowrun (and many other games) but not in D&D is hit points. Shadowrun calls them something different but what is ultimately important is that it just has a lot fewer of them, and they're hard to increase. If you get shot, it's bad news. There is no taking it on the chin in Shadowrun. There is no muscling out the dragon breath. You could emulate this phenomenon in D&D by simply using Constitution as a wound total instead of using hit points. I would bet that you'll even see a rule that could be adapted for this purpose in the DMG.

Characters measure their health in the tens, not the hundreds. With the open-source-style rules catalog, it's too easy to implement critical rolls (like a natural 20), or exploding dice, to increase the lethality of firearms and dragonbreath.

But I think the more relevant point here is the nature of Shadowrun equpiment. It's not Shadowrun without a Ruger Super Warhawk or an Ares Predator. It's not enough to just have a "heavy pistol" the way you have a "longsword." Choice of equipment is a major part of character customization in Shadowrun, and that means a lot of equipment conversion into a system that really isn't designed to support that kind of variation in offering. A sword is a sword is a sword, compared to all the variables inherent in a firearm. Caliber, mounts, magazine, mechanical reliability, barrel length -- the list goes on.

As a streamlined, core-rules system, Modos RPG presents three major attributes for weapons: size (hands needed), range, and a damage die. Converting Shadowrun equipment to Modos RPG equipment would take some work, but a lot of it would be really easy:
Caliber: increase or decrease the afore-mentioned critical rolls.
Magazine: depending on rate-of-fire, translates to a number of attack actions that can be used before another magazine is needed.
Reliability: rolling a 1 (or 2?) results in misfire.
Barrel length: increase or decrease range attribute. Additional range types can be added beyond "Long," especially to accommodate light or near-light speed weapons.

Happy converting!

 

[Negflar2099]

I like this idea. Something like this wouldn't be Shadowrun after all, but it could still Shadowrun-esque cyberpunk D&D game. I could live with that. I also like the idea of using optional rules from the D&D books to make it deadlier and harder to heal. That goes with the setting very nicely.

I wonder what the quickest and dirtiest way to do this would be? At a bare minimum you would need modern weapons and armor, some cyberware, modern equipment and living expenses, all new backgrounds and it wouldn't feel too cyberpunk to me unless it had rules for hacking, although those could be based on astral projection (like you said).

The races would have to stay the same, which means dwarves would be proficient in war hammers that they don't use very often. Would that be a problem?

 

[DMZ2112]

I get that 5e isn't modular. It isn't meant to be. But I've seen at least one person who's converting Star Frontiers to 5e and another whose doing it for Star Wars.

I'm watching the Star Frontiers conversion -- Star Frontiers was the archetypal percentile-skill-based RPG, science fiction edition, so I don't know what benefit a conversion to a class-based fantasy RPG will have. But I love the setting, so I'm watching. Keep in mind Star Wars already has a d20-based implementation -- converting SW Saga to D&D5 should not be much harder than converting D&D3.5 to D&D5.

That said, I don't know if I agree that riggers and deckers are that different that they couldn't be the same class. I mean Assassins and Thieves are in the same class, and for Fighters and Swordmages are in the same class. 5e has a clear imperative to reduce the number of classes. I can't see there being a variety of riggers or a bunch of subclasses for deckers. That's what made me think they would be better in a single class.

Don't misunderstand me. You could easily create a cyberpunk setting where all riggers are hackers who manipulate vehicles and drones in the real world at a distance through the Matrix. But Shadowrun is not that setting. Shadowrun riggers never see the Matrix. They are entirely focused on their own LAN and use VR exclusively to see other places in the real world -- not the Matrix. They rely heavily on the presence of a decker to protect their gear in the event of a hostile network intrusion -- the only defense a traditional Shadowrun rigger has against intrusion is a static firewall.

Further, the two "classes" play completely differently. Assassins and thieves are both stealthy combatants. Fighters and swordmages are both armored warriors. A decker is literally no different than a combat rogue -- it's just that he has programs instead of weapon and stealth skills and infiltrates and kills in the Matrix as opposed to on the streets. What about that says "rigger?" A rigger is a wheelman or a "beastmaster" with a swarm of drones.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Good luck on your next project! It was not my intention to dissuade you from this course of action, necessarily, but it would be a colossal undertaking. In my opinion what you ended up with at the end would not very closely resemble D&D5.