Is a touch spell discharged if you strike a mirror image?

[Magus_Jerel]

Actually, if in melee combat you are better off shutting your eyes and thus having only a 50% miss chance.

DEAD WRONG

The "miss chance" generated by the mirror image spell is not a consequence of concealment. It is a consequence of not knowing which image is the "real target".

If someone closed their eyes - they would have a 50% miss chance of hitting A target - and THEN roll to see wether or not they hit the real target or one of the images.

Much easier to just use magic missile to disperse a bunch of these things ...

 

[Plane Sailing]

Why?
Mirror Image is just a first level spell! Whyever should it be better versus touch attacks than, say, Blur?

Umm... Mirror image is a 2nd level spell! Blur does have the additional advantage that it always protects you from sneak attacks, and is guaranteed to last for 1 minute per level - mirror image could end much more quickly than that if the images get popped (arrows, large number of attackers, whirlwind attack etc)

 

[Plane Sailing]

DEAD WRONG

The "miss chance" generated by the mirror image spell is not a consequence of concealment. It is a consequence of not knowing which image is the "real target".

If someone closed their eyes - they would have a 50% miss chance of hitting A target - and THEN roll to see wether or not they hit the real target or one of the images.

Much easier to just use magic missile to disperse a bunch of these things ...

Umm... I don't think he is dead wrong, actually. The last paragraph of Mirror Image says

An attacker must be able to see the images to be fooled. If the character is invisible or an attacker shuts her eyes, the spell has no effect, though being unable to see carries the same penalties as being blinded: In addition to the obvious effects, a blinded creature suffers a 50% miss chance in combat (all opponents have full concealment), loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, grants a +2 bonus to attackers’ attack rolls (they are effectively invisible), moves at half speed, and suffers a –4 penalty on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skills.

(my emphasis)

The spell seems to state quite clearly that closing your eyes and attacking the caster with the 50% miss chance is a valid tactic (even more so if you have blindfighting).

Personally I assume that all the images stay in the same 5ft square as the caster for simplicity (since it says "These figments separate from the character and remain in a cluster, each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or the character"). Technically they could all be stretched out in a line, but that would make it more difficult for the caster to blend himself in with them again if he moves. In any case, if the attackers eyes are closed he will be using Listen to try to locate the correct square to attack and won't be put off by the images at that point.

Cheers

 

[Darklone]

Ehrm whirlwind...

I would not allow whirlwind attack to hit all images. Since they move around and through each other, I'd give the fighter ONE hit at the guy and see which image he hits.

 

[Bonedagger]

It will clearly not discarge

Trying to make rocket science out of something that 's not

It says you don't have a mentally control over it (Discharges no matter what you touch with your hand). So since your will has nothing to do with discharging it I would say no will-save against discharging it (Though I like the idea but in D&D magic does have that mecanical feel ).

I think of it as you must touch something that can lead (transfer/ discarge) electricity and figments can't do that.

Think of it as having a trap placed on your hand. It responds independently of you.

PHB P. 158 "A figment create a false sensation......... Because figments and glamers are unreal, they cannot produce real effect the way other illusions can." It is all in your mind. The Shocking Grasp will not discharge when hitting an image created by Mirror Image.

 

[Henrix]

Thank you, Bonedagger, for putting it so clearly.


(I tried yesterday, but obviously my brain had gone on vacation, without leaving a notice! )

 

[IceBear]

Re: It will clearly not discarge

Trying to make rocket science out of something that 's not

It says you don't have a mentally control over it (Discharges no matter what you touch with your hand). So since your will has nothing to do with discharging it I would say no will-save against discharging it (Though I like the idea but in D&D magic does have that mecanical feel ).

I think of it as you must touch something that can lead (transfer/ discarge) electricity and figments can't do that.

Think of it as having a trap placed on your hand. It responds independently of you.

PHB P. 158 "A figment create a false sensation......... Because figments and glamers are unreal, they cannot produce real effect the way other illusions can." It is all in your mind. The Shocking Grasp will not discharge when hitting an image created by Mirror Image.

Yeah, I think technically this is correct, but I think the spirit of the rule would be to have the spell discharged, in my humble opinion.

My idea with the Saving Throw was an attempt at a bridge between the two, though I agree with you it's not really based on the caster's willingness to discharge the spell (otherwise, when the caster weilded a weapon in that hand he could say that he doesn't want to discharge it).

Hmmmm....thinking on this some more. If someone casts Shocking Grasp on themselves and then attacks a rogue with it, if he misses the spell isn't discharged. He would get to keep trying to hit the rogue and the spell would still be in effect, correct (Duration is "Until Discharged")? Since a Mirror Image is basically a fancy way of turning a hit into a miss, I don't think it should discharge the spell because you haven't actually hit anything real.

IceBear

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

The spell seems to state quite clearly that closing your eyes and attacking the caster with the 50% miss chance is a valid tactic

States "quite clerarly" eh? Well, the spell description also says

When the character and the mirror image separate, observers can't use vision or hearing to tell which one is the character and which the image.

How clear is that?

 

[Henrix]

From the spell description:

"If ... an attacker shuts her eyes, the spell has no effect"

That's quite clear.

 

[Artoomis]

Re: It will clearly not discarge

Trying to make rocket science out of something that 's not

It says you don't have a mentally control over it (Discharges no matter what you touch with your hand). So since your will has nothing to do with discharging it I would say no will-save against discharging it (Though I like the idea but in D&D magic does have that mecanical feel ).

I think of it as you must touch something that can lead (transfer/ discarge) electricity and figments can't do that.

Think of it as having a trap placed on your hand. It responds independently of you.

PHB P. 158 "A figment create a false sensation......... Because figments and glamers are unreal, they cannot produce real effect the way other illusions can." It is all in your mind. The Shocking Grasp will not discharge when hitting an image created by Mirror Image.

Not quite right.

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: If the character doesn't discharge a touch spell on the round the character casts the spell, the character can[/i] hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely.

The character can make touch attacks round after round. The character can touch one friend (or the character can touch his or her self) as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If the character touches anything with the character's hand while holding a charge, the spell discharges. If the character casts another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

The character can hold the charge - not does, or must. Clearly, the character has mental control over holding the charge, though if he touches anything it is discharged. Indeed, if the character had no control over this, that would be BAD. Choose the wrong spell, and you wonder around for a bit trying to find an appropriate target - silly, isn't it? You just choose to stop holding the charge instead.

I think if he thinks he touched something (as in an illusion), the spell should be discharged. No save, or any such thing, unless the illusion itself grants one. Mirror Image fools you - no save, end of story. You think you hit something, so you stop holding the charge.

You may voluntarily or involuntarily stop holding a charge. There is no real question about that.

Whether or not you stop holding the charge if you think you hit something is the question. I think so - I think that's the intent.