Is Fighter's Combat Challenge an OA or not?

[Chen_93]

Well, they seem obvious to me, too, and I wasn't on the design team. I'd bet that most people who aren't trying to game the system settle on the 'obvious' reading.

In general I agree here. A lot of the time people try using intuition or other reasoning to bend (whether intentionally or not) the rules as written. They did a fairly good job this time around with being precise in their wordings. That is not to say there arn't vague rules or things, we know there are. The only reason to think CC attack is an OA is from the feat table, which is very likely a holdover from a previous iteration of rules development. Anyways text overrides tables, in general doesn't it? That was at least the case in 3.5...

 

[glass]

2. 1 OA per round

Per turn.

Well, they seem obvious to me, too, and I wasn't on the design team.

Me too.


glass.

 

[almuric]

We had a little issue with the difference between these two also. I think the key is that CC has different triggers than OA. A shift or attacking someone other than the fighter that marked it. Neither of those triggers an OA, therefore CC is not an OA.

However, my dwarven fighter is multi-classing to Cleric and here's the ability that muddies what I just wrote:

Warpriest’s Challenge (16th level): When you hit an enemy with an at-will melee attack, you can choose to mark that enemy for the rest of the encounter. The next time that enemy shifts or attacks a creature other than you, you can make an opportunity attack against that enemy. If you mark a new enemy with this feature, any previous marks you have made with this feature end.

Same trigger as a fighter's CC, but it says it's an OA. If I choose this as my fighter's paragon path, do I get my Combat Superiority class feature when I hit with this mark? Seems like it's the bastard child of CS and CC - an OA with two extra triggers. But a fighter's OA is enhanced by his CS class feature. So do I stop the shift? I would guess that I don't stop the attack, but maybe?

I'm sure there'll be an errata by the time I reach 16th level, but I figured I'd clear things up.

 

[Reaper Steve]

It does seem odd that Combat Challenge and Warpriest's Challenge have different wording.

 

[Chen_93]

Not being a designer I do not know if it is an unintentional slip up or whether they wanted there to be good synergy between war priest and fighters. Giving them the benefit of the doubt I would conclude the latter.

There is another point that comes up though with this. Say Im a fighter and mark someone as a warpriest with an at will. That person then attacks an ally of mine and not me. I take my OA, hit with it and now mark the creature with my CC ability. Since my OA interrupted the attack he then procedes with his attack. Can I take my CC basic attack now as well since he is marked and attacking someone other than me?

 

[bganon]

I don't think it's odd, it's just that Warpriest's Challenge is completely different from Combat Challenge and has certain advantages and disadvantages.

Warpriest's Challenge: must hit with at-will to mark, can only have one such mark at a time
Combat Challenge: can mark on any attack, hit or miss, any number of enemies

WC: lasts the entire encounter
CC: lasts one round

WC: when enemy shifts or attacks another, get free attack as OA
CC: when enemy shifts or attacks another, get free attack as immediate interrupt

Warpriest's Challenge is better in the latter two respects, but significantly more limited because of the first restriction. It seems like a Fighter/Warpriest should get Combat Superiority with their WC attack. Yes, that's awesome, but to get that awesome WC attack you need to pick your target and hit it first, so I don't think it's terribly overpowered.

 

[Stalker0]

This has got to be the most-asked question about 4e. Would it have killed them to add sentence to Combat Challenge saying "This basic attack is not an opportunity attack and does not benefit from Combat Superiority or feats that reference opportunity attacks."? :/

To be fair, the language of the abilities is very clear. One says immediate interrupt, the other says oppurtunity attack. There is no language in the text that even hints that combat challenge works with OA's.

The problem is that like the 3.5 turning tables its really hard to remember. I've found myself having to go back to the books a few times to remember which one is which.