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Is Hackmaster a joke?

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Outlaw

First Post
Hackmaster.
Garweeze Wurld.
Gawds.
Groin Stomp.
Titan Gnomes.

and

Little Keep on the Borderlands.
Little Tomb of Horrors.
Annihilate the Giants.
Castle Greyhack.


Hrm... not a joke setting?


No, it's not a joke setting. I've found, over the course of reading multiple threads on multiple boards, that those people who call it a joke setting have never played. Some, to their credit, have at least looked through the books, but so many have just heard about the things you've mentioned above (gnome titans, groin stomps and all the rest) and regurgitate the rumor that the system is a joke.

The system is nothing more but the next evolution of 1e/2e D&D. The setting is most certainly light hearted, but when did that become such a bad thing? I kicked an NPC in the nuts long before I played Hackmaster so why is it such a detriment to the setting now?

Yes there are Hackmasters (which are artifacts) and sidewinder fireballs (which do piss poor damage) and Bouncing Bettys and flaws like male pattern baldness. But why is that such a horrible thing? Most people say "I've been gaming for over twenty years" so how come we can't laugh at the things that we've been doing for so long?

I value my Hackmaster games very much and I look forward to every Thursday night because of it. We talk, we haggle, we laugh, we fight, we kick ass just like any good D&D campaign.

If it's not to your liking, remove the quirks and flaws (an easy thing to do), grab your 1e PHB and use those spells and walla, you've got yourself a "serious" game. What I would suggest, is play a game or two of Hackmaster. Although the first time you make a character it is daunting, you are provided with a wealth of role playing opportunities at your finger tips that can spur your imagination in so many directions. You will be truly rewarded for your efforts.

And, as an example, here's what I knew about my character just from making him:

He's the oldest of four boys. Both his parents are alive but his father is abusive and dishonored the family. He's an alibino and has male pattern baldness (which for elves means they grow facial hair, not lose their hair, still a bit of a hassle in social dealings). I'm a self-absorbed glutton from a middle upper-class family. I have a penchant for losing my cool in combat and I'm color blind.

All that just from a roll of a dice. Oh sure, I like to make up my character background with my characters, but this character has been equally exciting because the dice made him and I've discovered his character proceeding from there. It's been a blast!


Basically, Hackmaster is not a joke. A joke has a punchline and a conclusion whereas Hackmaster has no end. It is just like any other RPG where you game until you're dead or part of history. You go and you go and you go and although you might have a few laughs along the way, you'll never get to a punchline.
 

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CSB046

First Post
It seems to me that some of the "joke" stigma attached to Hackmaster may simply be a byproduct of the game's inspiration: Knights of the Dinner Table (which I know you're well aware of). KODT draws so many jokes from Hackmaster and its intrepid players that those who've read the comic and haven't looked closely at the game are bound to assume it's all a big gag.

Personally, I've never played, but the books LOOK really cool. I've thumbed through quite a few of them at the local game stores, resisting a strong urge to buy. Fortunately (in a manner of speaking), my wallet decided the matter for me. I had enough trouble finding a group with which to play third-edition D&D (which I just got back into recently), so I just can't afford to spend so much money on a bunch of books I may never use. Haven't bought any of AEG's Spycraft material for the same reason.

Perhaps when I finally buy all the D&D books I want (yeah, that'll happen...), I can shift some of my funds over to Hackmaster. Until then, my desire for Wurld domination will have to wait!
 

Crothian

First Post
So, what is this in reply of in the first place? Sure HHackmaster is a solid system, but it does have that silly comic element that makes many people never give it a first glance. Like it or not the modules look like parodies of classics. Shouldn't they instead be trying to write their own classics?
 

CSB046

First Post
I believe the initial discussion of Hackmaster popped up on the "Greyhawk Setting Resurrected?" thread.
 

trancejeremy

Adventurer
I'm sorry, but just because some think it's serious, doesn't mean that many of us don't think it's all a joke.

I mean, Hackmaster is a running gag from a popular comic that essentially makes fun of D&D and roleplayers.

Just because they turned it into a real rpg doesn't automatically make it serious. Especially with the crappy modules they've put out for it, mocking the originals (like "Smackdown the Slavers").

Give me a freakin' break. How is it not a joke? How is it not a slap in the face of D&D fans?
 

ColonelHardisson

What? Me Worry?
Of course it's not a joke. But you generally won't find that attitude here on these boards.

The trouble is that the designers didn't "break the fourth wall" enough, or step out of character as "Gary Jackson" enough in the books. Even on the message boards they rarely address, directly, the issue of what was meant seriously and what was meant as a joke (at least, I haven't seen it addressed much). For many it would seem obvious, but for those who are just glancing at them, some of the most parodic and satirical elements of the books might come off as serious. Some - maybe I should say "many" - just don't see or appreciate parody or satire. I'd certainly say the harshest critics fit into that camp. There are also many for whom humor of any sort has no place in a game.

Again, HackMaster isn't a joke. It's a game with a sense of humor. It's not a funhouse version of AD&D, just as the modules are not funhouse versions of their AD&D ancestors. Read them beyond the titles and that's highly evident. Trouble is, many simply never read anything beyond the title.
 

CSB046

First Post
We seem to have a St. Louis thing going on this thread...four posters thus far, and three St. Louisans!

I've never felt like KODT was making fun of gamers or D&D (or Paranoia, or Call of Cthulhu, or whatever game the characters were playing). I'm pretty sure the writers LOVE and play roleplaying games (based on the editorials and other material in the comics), so I've always had the sense of being "laughed with," not "laughed at." Some of those stories are so close to my old D&D groups it's scary...

I'm very curious to hear more of your perspective on this. I believe you're the first gamer I've ever encountered who (apparently) really disliked KODT, although I would assume you're not the only one. Please elaborate!

(Okay, so now it's three St. Louisans and two posters from Ohio. Congrats on the Ohio State win. My wife is from Ohio, so there was much joy in Mudville last night!)
 
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ColonelHardisson

What? Me Worry?
trancejeremy said:
I'm sorry, but just because some think it's serious, doesn't mean that many of us don't think it's all a joke.

I mean, Hackmaster is a running gag from a popular comic that essentially makes fun of D&D and roleplayers.

Just because they turned it into a real rpg doesn't automatically make it serious. Especially with the crappy modules they've put out for it, mocking the originals (like "Smackdown the Slavers").

Give me a freakin' break. How is it not a joke? How is it not a slap in the face of D&D fans?

Have you actually read any of the modules beyond the titles? They are not, as i said above, some weird funhouse version. Little Keep On The Borderlands, for example, differs from the original about as much as the "Return to..." module released a few years ago.

How is it a slap in the face of D&D players? The comics are geared specifically towards D&D players. I can read them - and the game - and laugh at myself and how I, and many, many others - have played the game at one time or another. I mean, come on, it's a game. If I can't laugh at something that is, ultimately, trivial and specifically meant for fun, then what can I laugh at?
 

JTolman

First Post
Hackmaster Rawks

HAckmaster is making Modules unique to Hackmaster itself.. but it is also Revamping some of the Old classic.. And I tell ya.. they have been Improvements on the Old versions which were 9 not to be disparaging of the old Modules) Some times weak in content
 

ColonelHardisson

What? Me Worry?
Y'know what? I hated Knights of the Dinner Table before I bought HackMaster. I just never saw why it was funny. HackMaster made me a fan of KotDT, not vice versa. I don't know why that is, but I'm glad it happened. Both show a genuine love and affection for gaming, and an ability to laugh at oneself, that is often sorely lacking in RPGs, both game-wise and fan-wise.
 

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