Is Iron Will an Untyped Bonus?

[sirwmholder]

Does that mean you can take it multiple times and it stacks?

Thank you for your time,
William Holder

 

[hafrogman]

Yes it is untyped.
No, you cannot take it multiple times.

A feat must specify that it may be taken multiple times, the default is to be unable.

 

[phindar]

There are other feats that do soemthing similar that would stack with Iron Will, if that's what you're looking for. Scorpion's Resolve from Sandstorm, for example, applies to certain types of Will Saves, so against that type you'd get the Scorpion's Resolve bonus, plus the bonus from Iron Will.

 

[sirwmholder]

I like the idea of Scorpion's Resolve but it's just easier to keep track of a general bonus instead of a conditional one. Would it be broken to create an Improved Iron Will? If not, how much more of a bonus should it provide?

Thank you for your time,
William Holder

 

[Rystil Arden]

Yes, it would be broken--in general, it would always be broken to create something unlimited that adds to a roll because of the extreme case of someone who only takes that over and over.

Examples:

UNLIMITED-POWER-Weapon-Focus--As Weapon Focus, but you can apply it to the same weapon infinitely. Suddenly, a Fighter who does that always hits unless you pick an enemy that everyone else always misses.

UNLIMITED-POWER-Spell-Focus--As Spell Focus, but you can apply it to the same school an infinite number of times. Suddenly, nobody can beat the Wizard's save DCs for X school--in fact, the DC disparity could be up to +8. That means that for people who saved except on a 1 without this crazy Spell Focus, they now need a 10 to save, and for anything more reasonable (say they had a 50/50 shot before), they can barely save with the highest rolls.

 

[Stalker0]

I know in Arcana Evolved, and I believe in the epic book, there's an improved iron will that you can start taking at 21+ levels that gives another +4 to will saves.

Personally, I think adding in a "Steel Will" feat that gave another +2 to will saves would be fine. I think it could get a little broken if you allowed a person to take iron will as many times as he wanted to create an unbeatable will save, but +4 for 2 feats should be fine.

 

[phindar]

Personally, I don't think its too unbalancing just to let the save bonus feats stack. A character could put five feats into Iron Will, all he's going to be better at is making Will Saves. The thought doesn't keep me up at night.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Personally, I don't think its too unbalancing just to let the save bonus feats stack. A character could put five feats into Iron Will, all he's going to be better at is making Will Saves. The thought doesn't keep me up at night.

I do this in my games. The save bonus feats are still generally taken only to qualify for a prestige class, and then are still only taken once. The one time that someone did take one of these feats multiple times, it was anything but overpowering...

Later
silver

 

[boolean]

Yes, it would be broken--in general, it would always be broken to create something unlimited that adds to a roll because of the extreme case of someone who only takes that over and over.

Examples:

UNLIMITED-POWER-Weapon-Focus--As Weapon Focus, but you can apply it to the same weapon infinitely. Suddenly, a Fighter who does that always hits unless you pick an enemy that everyone else always misses.

UNLIMITED-POWER-Spell-Focus--As Spell Focus, but you can apply it to the same school an infinite number of times. Suddenly, nobody can beat the Wizard's save DCs for X school--in fact, the DC disparity could be up to +8. That means that for people who saved except on a 1 without this crazy Spell Focus, they now need a 10 to save, and for anything more reasonable (say they had a 50/50 shot before), they can barely save with the highest rolls.

An interesting pair of examples. Do you really consider Greater Spell Focus and Greater Weapon Focus to be broken?

 

[Nifft]

An interesting pair of examples. Do you really consider Greater Spell Focus and Greater Weapon Focus to be broken?

Those stack infinitely?! I seem to recall you can only take them once per school or weapon.

Or are you saying that +2 = infinity, for some value of "infinity"?

-- N