Is it a damage roll if you don't roll?

[Cerebral Paladin]

I have a question that I haven't been able to figure out. Lots of modifiers (feats, item enhancements, etc.) give a bonus to your "damage rolls." Okay, so that's easy in the standard case of 2[W] + Str mod or whatever. But how does that work with regard to powers that do a fixed amount of damage? I'm thinking of things like Furious Smash (Warlord Attack 1 at-will), which has the Hit value of "Deal damage equal to your Strength modifier, and then..." Is that a damage roll? Do I get to add my Weapon Focus and weapon enhancement bonuses?

I assume that if I'm getting a power bonus to damage (say, from a previous character's action) I get to add that at least, but it's not clear whether they should be treated differently. Notably, there are a couple of places where they specify that you can't increase the damage (Hammer Rhythm, PHB 203 ("This damage receives no additional modifiers or other benefits you normally gain to weapon damage."))

Okay, so if I do get to add my weapon based modifiers (Furious Smash is after all a Weapon exploit, and certainly I get the bonuses to the attack roll), then what about class features that imply a weapon but don't technically require one? Take Shadow Assassin's Riposte (PHB 128). "Any adjacent enemy that misses you with a melee attack takes damage equal to your Dexterity modifier." Does that get the benefit of Weapon Focus? His rapier's enhancement bonus? Can it activate the Lifedrinker power? I know that last bit is an additional question, but I thought I would ask.

I've looked hard for an answer in the rules, but not found one (except for the contrast with Hammer Rhythm, but that may not be a reliable interpretation tool). Does anyone know of the text I'm missing? If not, how are you handling this question, and why?

 

[Ander00]

I don't think it's explicitly spelled out anywhere, but we've been playing that if you don't actually roll any dice, it can't be a damage roll (of course excepting critical hits with nonmagical weapons), so Furious Smash for example benefits from the weapon's enhancement for the attack roll but it is not factored into the damage it deals.

In the case of abilities like Assassin's Riposte, I'd say it's pretty clear that the intent is that you only get to deal the set amount of damage, without any bonuses from weapons and the like. Hammer Rythm just spells out what is implied elsewhere.


cheers

 

[davidthegnome]

Page 57 phb

Second paragraph up on the right side starting with "Some powers add..."

Static nonvariable effects are not modified by a bonus from the power itself. It makes no mention of from feats and class features.

I have the same question. In my case I play a cleric and have been adding my wisdom to powers that heal even if they are static numbers due to my Healer's Lore.

 

[kerbarian]

I sent in a similar question to customer service, using Flaming Sphere as the example. You get the implement damage bonus to the initial hit, but what about to the 1d4+Int damage for standing next to the sphere? What about when you use a standard action to attack with the sphere again? There are also other odd cases like Mordenkainen's Sword (it attacks on its own using your stats -- does it benefit from an implement or feats?) and Prismatic Beams (multiple damage rolls against one target -- do you add implement/feat damage bonuses to each one?).

The initial response was that you only get the implement bonus to the intial damage roll, but you would get the damage bonus from a feat like Astral Fire to all damage rolls, including the 1d4+Int for standing next to the sphere. After I asked about the other cases, I was told this was an errata issue and an answer would hopefully appear in their knowledge base soon. That was Monday, and new errata came out yesterday but didn't address the issue.

So, my question to customer service wasn't quite what you asked, but hopefully there will be an upcoming clarification about implement bonuses soon that will also cover your question.

 

[Palladion]

I have the same question. In my case I play a cleric and have been adding my wisdom to powers that heal even if they are static numbers due to my Healer's Lore.

Specifically for this example, healer's lore (PH 61) states that when you "grant healing with one of your cleric powers that has the healing keyword, add your Wisdom modifier to the hit points the recipient regains." There is no mention of rolls involved, just a straight bonus. You are correct in your usage of the power.

 

[Cerebral Paladin]

Thanks to everyone for their comments. I think David the Gnome's cite resolves it for me, at least unless WotC clarifies it further-- even though it only mentions power bonuses, I think they're establishing a general rule that static values don't receive bonuses that apply to "damage rolls." Healer's Lore is still a dubious question, but I lean towards agreeing that it should work.

 

[mach1.9pants]

The answer is definitely maybe!

Looking forward to the FAQ on this one, came up already in our game.