Is it Munchkin?

[Lost-Johnny]

I have never played in the Forgotten Realms and don't know much about it. I have just recently started a game in the Unnapproachable East and I chose a Wolf Lodge Rashemi barbarian (gets bonusses on trip attacks). Not knowing too much about the setting I looked at the weapons in the PHB and noticed that the Spiked Chain looked really gnarley and cool and helped with trip attacks so I planned on taking it as an Exotic Weapon feat. The DM kind of looked at me sideways and mentioned something about it being not really appropriate culturally but that he would let me do it. I'm new to the group and don't want to seem whiney, but also don't want to take it if it's too munchkin. Just what are the cultural implications of a spiked chain? Is it twinkie to take that weapon feat? What weapons are used in Raheman among the different lodges?

 

[grimwell]

I'm not a Realms player so I can't really tell you if it is culturally appropriate or not -- but I wouldn't worry about the munchkin factor. One mans munchkin is another mans low powered character. I'd suggest talking to the DM about what is culturally appropriate and seeing if anything in that mix gets your attention, or working on a background that explains why your character has a cultural anomaly as a primary weapon preference... that will give him some plot hooks in your character's background to use with and against you.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

It helps a fighter. God forbid the low man on the totem pole get a boost. Just play a cleric if your DM gripes more, and give them something to really cry about.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

i dont see why it would be inappropriate culturally not common yes but not to out of flavor either from what i recall its mostly a none human weapon and that may be what he means but the Rashemi have a long history and dont see why u could not fit this in without a fuss
it could even be a family relic passed down from the time of narfall dont see a prob

 

[Jim Hague]

I have never played in the Forgotten Realms and don't know much about it. I have just recently started a game in the Unnapproachable East and I chose a Wolf Lodge Rashemi barbarian (gets bonusses on trip attacks). Not knowing too much about the setting I looked at the weapons in the PHB and noticed that the Spiked Chain looked really gnarley and cool and helped with trip attacks so I planned on taking it as an Exotic Weapon feat. The DM kind of looked at me sideways and mentioned something about it being not really appropriate culturally but that he would let me do it. I'm new to the group and don't want to seem whiney, but also don't want to take it if it's too munchkin. Just what are the cultural implications of a spiked chain? Is it twinkie to take that weapon feat? What weapons are used in Raheman among the different lodges?

I think that this best sums most GMs' problems with the spiked chain up:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html

And more seriously:
http://forums.rpghost.com/showthread.php?p=608700

And in the words of one of my former (munchkin) players: "It's broken...of course I took it!"

 

[monboesen]

It will depend on the rest of the groups point of view. As for potential munchkiness choose among the following.

a) the whole trip maneuver thing has been powered way up in 3,5ed and can lead to domination of battles vs. foes of your own or smaller size
b) the spiked chain is a stupid and unrealistic weapon
c) spiked chains amplifies the trip maneuver problem by providing a bonus AND granting reach
d) getting a bonus on tripping attempts (from your background) combined with the Improved trip feat, a spiked chain and combat reflexes for gravy is dedicated powergaming

 

[Sejs]

If the DM has a bug up their nose about spiked chains, and frankly some do, just use a heavy flail instead. It's martial so it saves you a feat, you still get the trip and disarm bonus, it does slightly better damage, and has a better crit profile.

The down side is that it doesn't have reach, but, well, can't have everything I suppose.

 

[Dykstrav]

I've never really dug the spiked chain myself. It seems like an awfully chintzy type of weapon. Without getting too much into it, there's a reason that real-world warriors used swords, spears, arrows, and flails for thousands of years. The manrikigusari or the meteor hammer are probably the closest real world equivalents, and even those required years of training and practice to use well (in my thinking, it'd be more akin to taking a prestige class than taking a feat to really be able to use these weapons effectively in battle). But so what? D&D isn't supposed to mirror reality, spiked chains are an idea that alot of players and DMs like.

I can see where a DM would think that certain weapons wouldn't jibe with a certain setting. Could you imagine a 16th-century samurai wielding an English cavalry lance? Or how about a shaolin monk with a rapier? A Venetian duelist with a three-section-staff? A Scottish highlander with a pair of tonfa? These things aren't strictly illegal from a rules standpoint, but they are valid considerations for setting a certain tone and feel to the game.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I've never really dug the spiked chain myself. It seems like an awfully chintzy type of weapon. Without getting too much into it, there's a reason that real-world warriors used swords, spears, arrows, and flails for thousands of years. The manrikigusari or the meteor hammer are probably the closest real world equivalents, and even those required years of training and practice to use well (in my thinking, it'd be more akin to taking a prestige class than taking a feat to really be able to use these weapons effectively in battle). But so what? D&D isn't supposed to mirror reality, spiked chains are an idea that alot of players and DMs like.

I can see where a DM would think that certain weapons wouldn't jibe with a certain setting. Could you imagine a 16th-century samurai wielding an English cavalry lance? Or how about a shaolin monk with a rapier? A Venetian duelist with a three-section-staff? A Scottish highlander with a pair of tonfa? These things aren't strictly illegal from a rules standpoint, but they are valid considerations for setting a certain tone and feel to the game.

There is a reason exotic weapons require a feat to use. Can we guess why class? Could it be because they require training outside the norm? Naahh.

And FFS, the realms isnt midieval earth. If asian wizards lived in the same neighborhood as scottish highlanders (like they do in the realms), then I doubt it would be hard for that guy to learn how to use a tonfa.

 

[frankthedm]

The DM kind of looked at me sideways and mentioned something about it being not really appropriate culturally but that he would let me do it. I'm new to the group and don't want to seem whiney, but also don't want to take it if it's too munchkin. Just what are the cultural implications of a spiked chain? Is it twinkie to take that weapon feat?

The DM should just have the gut to say "No spiked chains". The weapon is not 'incredibly’ twinky, though some powergamers do gravitate towards it. It is also one of the weapons that push the edge of believability and devalues pole arms too greatly.

Some folks like myself feel threatening past one’s natural reach with a non magical chain is not possible. I think twirling the chain while preparing for a readied attack is possible, but taking AoOs would require more control than non magically possible.

I think you should tell the DM it is unfair to discourage you from taking the spiked chain unless he is going to remove the spiked chain from the game entirely since the spiked chain is really bad news when a bugger creature starts swinging it.

You could suggest this weapon...[sblock=Chain weapons]Chains; A group of weapons consisting of stout chain, Nearly 15 feet long, with varying options at both ends. Each combination [Head-Chain-Head] is a separate feat. Attack adjacent foes as a improvised flail or use similar to a whip as an exotic weapon The chain is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, much like the whip, though you do threaten within your normal armed reach.

Depending on heads, using as a double weapon and weapon finesse may be an option. The chain itself counts as a light weapon in a grapple. Though two handed, the flexible nature of the chain prevents wielder from applying STR x 1.5 & receiving the doubled output from power attack. Using in cramped spaces is difficult.

Base 1d6/1d6 x2 crit 12LB 30 GP finesse, ‘light’
Heavy head: 1d8 bludgeoning x3 crit +6 bl, 10gp each. ‘one handed’
Blade head 1d8 slashing 19-20 crit +4lb 15 gold each. ‘one handed’
Boulder Head 2d6 bludgeoning 19-20 crit +20 lbs ‘two handed’ Allows STR x 1.5 damage and double power attack output. Requires a standard action to attack past where you threaten. Doesn’t have disarm, dual wield or trip option[/sblock]