Is it sadder when an elf dies than when a human dies?

[tonym]

I was watching the LoTR DVD--the part where all the orcs are attacking Helm’s Deep--and I noticed something odd. When an elf died, I felt sadder than when a human died.

Does anybody else feel this way when watching that movie?

The elves' potentially long lives made their deaths more tragic, I think.

I have a follow-up question: Has anybody played in a campaign where the murder of a member of a long-lived race, like an elf, is treated as a more serious crime than the murder of a member of a relatively short-lived race, like a human?


Tony

 

[DaveMage]

I have a follow-up question: Has anybody played in a campaign where the murder of a member of a long-lived race, like an elf, is treated as a more serious crime than the murder of a member of a relatively short-lived race, like a human?

Tony

No.

Especially since I usually play humans or dwarves.

Seriously, though, I think it all has to do with the world the DM creates. If elves are revered as divine in some way, then lamenting their deaths greater than that of other races might exist. However, in my games, all races are usually considered to have equal esteem (in general) - despite each's potential longevity.

 

[tarchon]

"No man is an island, entire of its elf."

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Well, when an elf dies there seems to be a handy invisible choir standing around to lament the death. When a human is killed, there is just the sound of spush as he falls into a muddy puddle to die alone in the rain. It's a style thing.

 

[res]

I was watching the LoTR DVD--the part where all the orcs are attacking Helm’s Deep--and I noticed something odd. When an elf died, I felt sadder than when a human died.

Does anybody else feel this way when watching that movie?

I was saddened at that part too, but only because Haldair (the elf who was killed in the scene in question) was one of my favorite characters for some reason, and I was upset that they had to kill him when he wasn't supposed to be there in the first place. (Not that I'm complaining about the elfs showing up, I thought it made the Battle of Helms Deep even better.)

The elves' potentially long lives made their deaths more tragic, I think.

I have a follow-up question: Has anybody played in a campaign where the murder of a member of a long-lived race, like an elf, is treated as a more serious crime than the murder of a member of a relatively short-lived race, like a human?

Well, I suppose that to another elf, the murder or death of one of their kind might be a lot more sadder than a human, but at the same time, I think something like that is tragic no matter what the race involved would be.

I can't say I've been in campaigns where the murder of an elf would be more serious than a human or a dwarf, but I imagine that it could be possible in a very xenophobic elf community somewheres.

 

[francisca]

Depends on the elf, methinks.

If the elf was an epic adenturer, who had righted many wrongs, saved entire civilizations, and made many enemies and allies during his centuries among us lesser folk, then no, I wouldn't be sad, because he probably has lots of cool stuff for my character to loot.

If he was a low-level tree hugger, with only a +1 flyswatter, yeah, I'd be pretty bummed. Actually I'd be mad.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Nope. In fact, I cheer when an elf dies.

 

[Sejs]

I was rather saddened when Haldir died in Two Towers, but that was because he was a named character and he was at Helm's Deep in the first place to try and do the right thing. My reaction to his death had nothing to do with the fact that he was an elf. Haldir got a "Mmn, that's a damn shame"; every other elf there who died didn't even warrant a second thought.

I have a follow-up question: Has anybody played in a campaign where the murder of a member of a long-lived race, like an elf, is treated as a more serious crime than the murder of a member of a relatively short-lived race, like a human?

Yes and no. The death of an elf was seen as a far greater tragedy than that of a 'lesser' race by the other elves. But that's due in large part to the fact that elves were stuck-up priggish bastards who were quite full of themselves and how everything was better before. Well, most elves anyway. The wood elves wern't like that, but that can be attributed to the fact that they dealt with creatures that didn't have the luxury of living for a couple thousand years, on a regular basis. Gnomes, fey, humans, animals; the wood elves realized that hey, some just die sooner than others and there's nothing to be done for it. To them it was more tragic for someone they knew and cared for to die via misfortune, than for some shlub they never knew to die, just because that schlub may have possibly lived for a really long time.

uh, then again that was in my own campaign setting, so I'm kinda the one who set things like that in the first place. *cough*

 

[billd91]

I was watching the LoTR DVD--the part where all the orcs are attacking Helm’s Deep--and I noticed something odd. When an elf died, I felt sadder than when a human died.

Does anybody else feel this way when watching that movie?


Tony

You're supposed to feel that way. The way the music plays, the camera lingers on the dead elves around Haldir. PJ wants you to feel the loss of the elves who sacrificed everything (immortality in a world away from strife) to die fighting Sauron's evil. It's a potent idea in Lord of the Rings and even more so in the Silmarillion, where the elves die by the thousands or are enslaved and corrupted into orcs.

 

[Arken]

You're supposed to feel that way. The way the music plays, the camera lingers on the dead elves around Haldir. PJ wants you to feel the loss of the elves who sacrificed everything (immortality in a world away from strife) to die fighting Sauron's evil. It's a potent idea in Lord of the Rings and even more so in the Silmarillion, where the elves die by the thousands or are enslaved and corrupted into orcs.

Agreed, I think that in tolkien's epistemology the death of an elf was particularly tragic and it is in part because they are giving up immortality. It doesn't have to ba that way in your own campaign of course.

P.S. I don't think that elves *have* to be priggish and racist, I always found that a bit of a strange characterisation.