Carnivorous_Bean
First Post
Plane Sailing said:
Ah, okay, reading is extraordinarily rash and elitist. Gotcha. Thanks for setting me straight on that. And anything that isn't in the 400 word TV vocabulary is archaic.
Huzzah for ignorance!
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Is "Justiciar" the new "Rogue?"
- Thread starter ArmoredSaint
- Start date
Ah, okay, reading is extraordinarily rash and elitist. Gotcha. Thanks for setting me straight on that. And anything that isn't in the 400 word TV vocabulary is archaic.
Huzzah for ignorance!
Marius Delphus
Adventurer
Sometimes ignorance is merely ignorance: i.e., the condition of never having being exposed to the fact in question, and thus never having had the opportunity to learn it.
I know how to use Microsoft Word fairly well. In fact, people observing me ply my trade have commented that it's "like watching a pool shark run a table" or "Word ninjitsu." I never assume that people without my level of ability are stupid. I prefer to assume that they haven't as much experience with Microsoft Word, as much need to plumb its inner workings, or as much practice with it as I have.
N.B. I'm not claiming to have achieved a Zen-like state where I'm never *frustrated* by the fact -- quite the contrary. On days when I have plenty of patience, I'm able to teach somebody a useful shortcut or routine that helps them stop fighting to write their documents. On days when I have less, I just do what needs to be done and hand the document back without comment.
The same is true of vocabulary. Many, many people are raised without the benefit of role models that value language, that think mastery of one's native language is an end in itself, and that believe that "language ninjitsu" is a valuable survival tool and life skill.
It's rude to look down on people because they simply don't know a word you know.
I know in my bones that "justicar" is a misspelling, but I don't take anyone to task over it. I cringe inwardly when people use "vice" to mean "versus" (I suspect I know where that comes from, but it still rankles), but if it's not important I don't correct them. "Free reign" and "rain of terror," "horde of treasure" and "hoard of barbarians" still set my teeth on edge.
But I have a choice to make: I can make enemies, or I can make friends. I can ridicule, or I can educate. I can haughtily and snidely dismiss someone because their vocabulary isn't as large as mine, or I can take the opportunity to increase the general level of knowledge in the universe. I can dismiss someone as unable to learn and therefore beneath my notice, or I can impress upon them that using the dictionary tends to be a good idea on encountering an unfamiliar word, and empower that person to increase their mastery of language.
In short, I agree that assuming that a native English speaker perforce knows the correct pronunciation of the archaic term "blackguard" (and it *is* archaic, but not based upon its rarity in popular entertainment) is rash and elitist. Let's be careful, in this thread, not to judge people based on the size of their vocabulary but to educate and increase knowledge.
[EDIT: For bonus points, without looking it up, "boatswain."]
I know how to use Microsoft Word fairly well. In fact, people observing me ply my trade have commented that it's "like watching a pool shark run a table" or "Word ninjitsu." I never assume that people without my level of ability are stupid. I prefer to assume that they haven't as much experience with Microsoft Word, as much need to plumb its inner workings, or as much practice with it as I have.
N.B. I'm not claiming to have achieved a Zen-like state where I'm never *frustrated* by the fact -- quite the contrary. On days when I have plenty of patience, I'm able to teach somebody a useful shortcut or routine that helps them stop fighting to write their documents. On days when I have less, I just do what needs to be done and hand the document back without comment.
The same is true of vocabulary. Many, many people are raised without the benefit of role models that value language, that think mastery of one's native language is an end in itself, and that believe that "language ninjitsu" is a valuable survival tool and life skill.
It's rude to look down on people because they simply don't know a word you know.
I know in my bones that "justicar" is a misspelling, but I don't take anyone to task over it. I cringe inwardly when people use "vice" to mean "versus" (I suspect I know where that comes from, but it still rankles), but if it's not important I don't correct them. "Free reign" and "rain of terror," "horde of treasure" and "hoard of barbarians" still set my teeth on edge.
But I have a choice to make: I can make enemies, or I can make friends. I can ridicule, or I can educate. I can haughtily and snidely dismiss someone because their vocabulary isn't as large as mine, or I can take the opportunity to increase the general level of knowledge in the universe. I can dismiss someone as unable to learn and therefore beneath my notice, or I can impress upon them that using the dictionary tends to be a good idea on encountering an unfamiliar word, and empower that person to increase their mastery of language.
In short, I agree that assuming that a native English speaker perforce knows the correct pronunciation of the archaic term "blackguard" (and it *is* archaic, but not based upon its rarity in popular entertainment) is rash and elitist. Let's be careful, in this thread, not to judge people based on the size of their vocabulary but to educate and increase knowledge.
[EDIT: For bonus points, without looking it up, "boatswain."]
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Asmor
First Post
Now now, tempers.
Carnivorous, speaking as someone who's generally recognized for having an outstanding vocabulary, and for whom English is his native language, it never occurred to me that blackguard was anything more than a compound word consisting of "black" and "guard." It's a natural assumption for anyone to make, especially, dare I say it, people for whom English is their native language. As a fallen/evil paladin, "black guard" sounds like an entirely reasonable title. Black has pretty much always had the connotation of evil, darkness, fear, unholiness, etc. Guard makes you think of a protector or enforcer. Hence, to a native English speaker, when one hears the term blackguard applied to a fallen paladin, the term is almost synonymous with "unholy champion."
Back on topic, I don't know what I'm going to do as far as pronunciation goes. I've been aware for a long time of the existence of "justiciar," but the term "justicar" seems so prevalent that I'd always assumed it was a proper term.
I've noticed in the many, many, many pronunciation debates on this board (drow: rhymes with sew/cow), everyone always thinks their way of pronouncing the word sounds cool and the other way just sounds dumb. It's my suspiscion that, consciously or subconsciously, when people say "dumb" what they mean is "awkward and unfamiliar."*
I'll probably stick with justicar, because it's ingrained into me and justiciar is both awkward sounding to me and difficult for me to pronounce. Along the same lines, I'll probably write it as "justicar" because, as long as I'm pronouncing it wrong, might as well be consistent.
*As an aside, in the absence of anyone else to pronounce it, I'd long assumed that phlogiston was pronounced with a hard G, i.e. "FLOG-i-ston." In my last gaming group I encountered others saying the word for the first time, and they pronounced it with a j sound, accent on the second syllable, like "fluh-JISS-ton." It sounded really screwed up to me, but now that sounds more natural to me than how I used to say it.
Carnivorous, speaking as someone who's generally recognized for having an outstanding vocabulary, and for whom English is his native language, it never occurred to me that blackguard was anything more than a compound word consisting of "black" and "guard." It's a natural assumption for anyone to make, especially, dare I say it, people for whom English is their native language. As a fallen/evil paladin, "black guard" sounds like an entirely reasonable title. Black has pretty much always had the connotation of evil, darkness, fear, unholiness, etc. Guard makes you think of a protector or enforcer. Hence, to a native English speaker, when one hears the term blackguard applied to a fallen paladin, the term is almost synonymous with "unholy champion."
Back on topic, I don't know what I'm going to do as far as pronunciation goes. I've been aware for a long time of the existence of "justiciar," but the term "justicar" seems so prevalent that I'd always assumed it was a proper term.
I've noticed in the many, many, many pronunciation debates on this board (drow: rhymes with sew/cow), everyone always thinks their way of pronouncing the word sounds cool and the other way just sounds dumb. It's my suspiscion that, consciously or subconsciously, when people say "dumb" what they mean is "awkward and unfamiliar."*
I'll probably stick with justicar, because it's ingrained into me and justiciar is both awkward sounding to me and difficult for me to pronounce. Along the same lines, I'll probably write it as "justicar" because, as long as I'm pronouncing it wrong, might as well be consistent.
*As an aside, in the absence of anyone else to pronounce it, I'd long assumed that phlogiston was pronounced with a hard G, i.e. "FLOG-i-ston." In my last gaming group I encountered others saying the word for the first time, and they pronounced it with a j sound, accent on the second syllable, like "fluh-JISS-ton." It sounded really screwed up to me, but now that sounds more natural to me than how I used to say it.
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Carnivorous_Bean said:
If anyone assumed that the Blackguard Prestige Class meant something besides "Prestige Class for becoming the household staffer in charge of pots and pans" I would assume he was some kind of illiterate caveman.
Except, I wouldn't assume that, because it would be unreasonable.
Also, one should never take one's ancestor's mispronunciation of their own language as an occasion for elitism. And if there is one thing that the culture of Britain is about, thematically, it's the mispronunciation of the English language. If you wish to debate this point, sir, the debate shall be held in East End.
Halivar
First Post
Wow. To an admin? That's ballsy. In any event, Plane Sailing's right: blackguard is not a term the average person will probably ever hear or read in its original usage, and expecting them to know it is ludicrous. This word has two uses: high-school spelling tests and D&D.Carnivorous_Bean said:
Oh, and "blaggard" is not the only pronunciation. blak-ghard is also a valid pronunciation.
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Pale Jackal
First Post
Carnivorous_Bean said:
How do you pronounce waterfall?
Dr. Harry
First Post
Carnivorous_Bean said:
It is interesting the different places where our differing assumptions lie. I would not go to this level about "blackguard", but mangling "nuclear" as "nu-cu-ler" sounds unreservedly moronic. I suppose this has to do with how something like "nuclear" is spelled as it supposed to be said, from an American English point of view, as opposed to remembering how it is supposed to be said, like blaggart or bosun.
Someone who wrote "I pray to my diety to go nucular on that rouge" on some sort of email or text camaign I'd be running might not lose a level, but they'd probably get hit with a grudge monster.
Harry
When you assume...Carnivorous_Bean said:
Seriously, where have you heard "blackguard" spoken aloud outside of a D&D game? I don't remember how and when I learned that the word was pronounced blaggard, but I did pick it up somewhere, and I do remember thinking the 3E designers were fools for not looking the term up in the dictionary first, but I hardly expect random gamers to know obscure, archaic terms -- especially boring archaic terms.
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