Level Up (A5E) Is Pact of the Blade worth it

[Umbral_Magmus]

So Eldritch Scythe extra attack feature says that when you use Eldritch Ray, Eldritch Scythe, or Eldritch Whip as part of your action on your turn, as long as you make no weapon attacks you can attack twice instead of once. At 11th level you can make three attacks, and at 17th level you can make four attacks.

In comparison to the invocations Pact of the Blade gets, Eldritch Scythe blows it out of the water.

Am I interpreting this right

 

[xiphumor]

I’m confused. you realize you can have both of them at the same time, right?

Also, recall that Pact of the Blade has a secret upgrade path: magic weapons.

 

[Pedantic]

Yeah, I've also struggled to find a reason you'd want to actually use your pact weapon in a pure warlock build. Scythe/whip is generally just better if you're going to be in melee and a single class warlock.

 

[xiphumor]

In terms of DPR at least, and assuming optimal invocation selection, your pact weapon will outperform Eldritch Scythe until at least level 11 assuming it’s at least a d10 weapon. This is also assuming Eldritch Scythe does full damage every turn. If you can’t hit multiple enemies in the same shot, your Pact Weapon is better until level 17.

 

[Pedantic]

In terms of DPR at least, and assuming optimal invocation selection, your pact weapon will outperform Eldritch Scythe until at least level 11 assuming it’s at least a d10 weapon. This is also assuming Eldritch Scythe does full damage every turn. If you can’t hit multiple enemies in the same shot, your Pact Weapon is better until level 17.

Right, I'm forgetting about Life Drinker. 2 Invocations isn't a huge price to pay, and that definitely does put you ahead.

 

[Steampunkette]

As Xiphumor pointed out: It's entirely going to be a use-case situation. If you can get multiple enemies with your scythe, or need the extra HP from the whip, those two outweigh pact of the blade.

But if you are in a situation where those criteria aren't true, the Blade is going to win out.

That said... a -strict- reading of the text means you don't get any added dice, either, since your "Melee Spell Attack" deals 1d8 force damage. So if you're using a Flametongue and use Eldritch Scythe you don't get the added 2d6 fire damage.

 

[xiphumor]

Are we distinguishing between damage and dice now? I’m open to this heuristic, but I’d like to see other places in the text where this distinction is made before I’m sold on that being the appropriate interpretation.

 

[thuter]

So Eldritch Scythe extra attack feature says that when you use Eldritch Ray, Eldritch Scythe, or Eldritch Whip as part of your action on your turn, as long as you make no weapon attacks you can attack twice instead of once. At 11th level you can make three attacks, and at 17th level you can make four attacks.

In comparison to the invocations Pact of the Blade gets, Eldritch Scythe blows it out of the water.

Am I interpreting this right

There is a way of utilizing both Thirsting Blade (extra attack with pact weapon) and Extra Blast (more Eldritch Scythe attacks), but it doesn't actually use your pact weapon. You do this by taking a level of Marshal, and with your two attacks you give one to your ally (preferably one with scaling cantrips or sneak attack), and use the other to Eldritch Scythe. Is it good? Probably, but I am not sure. Is it worth it? Absolutely! You are not violating the rules, and people will be in awe of your munchkin level of RAW (pun intended) system mastery.

 

[Gnome Rager]

There is a way of utilizing both Thirsting Blade (extra attack with pact weapon) and Extra Blast (more Eldritch Scythe attacks), but it doesn't actually use your pact weapon. You do this by taking a level of Marshal, and with your two attacks you give one to your ally (preferably one with scaling cantrips or sneak attack), and use the other to Eldritch Scythe. Is it good? Probably, but I am not sure. Is it worth it? Absolutely! You are not violating the rules, and people will be in awe of your munchkin level of RAW (pun intended) system mastery.

I love the have your cake and eat it approach

 

[Mark Essel]

There is a way of utilizing both Thirsting Blade (extra attack with pact weapon) and Extra Blast (more Eldritch Scythe attacks), but it doesn't actually use your pact weapon. You do this by taking a level of Marshal, and with your two attacks you give one to your ally (preferably one with scaling cantrips or sneak attack), and use the other to Eldritch Scythe. Is it good? Probably, but I am not sure. Is it worth it? Absolutely! You are not violating the rules, and people will be in awe of your munchkin level of RAW (pun intended) system mastery.

Does thirsting blade count as an extra attack feature? If so it may not stack with eldritch blasts extra attack feature, even though the clever use of the Marshall ability bypasses part of the restriction.

Under the extra blast section in Warlock:
"This feature otherwise counts as Extra Attack"