Is poison use inherently evil?

[LokiDR]

-THAT- line swings both ways, you know. Choosing not to be rational is considered insane.

Not all poisons kill. Sometimes, when they do, they give a kinder death than a festering sword wound.

I didn't say not to be rational, I said over rationalization can lead to evil acts. Not rationalizing ever just leads to doing what you believe and are told. That would mean no person who thinks of themself as "good" would use poison because it is "evil", despite the legitmate uses. That is complete lack of rationalization.

In D&D, sword wounds never get infected and they never last beyond a day or two before the cleric patches you up. Poisons that don't kill or make you weak (stat damage) are not really poisons, IMHO, the are anestesic or knock-out gas, or tear gas, or some other chemical. These aren't illegal, so they must not be poisons.

 

[Grundle]

Why can't a paladin sneak into a goblin camp and poison their food?

I dunno. I say it's fine. Might not be straight by the rules. Don't care.

This would offer no chance for the goblins to surrender. Not allowing an opponent to surrender is not a very honorable thing to do.

Non-combatants would be killed. A Paladin doesn't slay children and babies - even those of evil beings.

Poisoning food and leaving creates a situation much akin to putting a land-mine in the middle of the road and walking away. The Paladin will not be controlling what happens to this poisoned food. What if it is feed to some prisoners held by the goblins? What if the goblins sell it? What if a hermit comes along several weeks after and finds a free meal waiting for him?

 

[Xeriar]

What if the paladin considers surrender dishonorable? (Nippon...)

What if the paladin's code of ethics considers cohorts of the enemy enemies too?

As to your last point, it's more like putting the land-mine in front of an oncoming vehicle. People have accidents with swords and bows, too you know.

 

[Zappo]

Using poison could be seen as lawful good:

The local authorities are faced with some sort of unrest that is heading towards outright riot and revolt. These authorities _could_ go in and slaughter everyone with no problem. But that would be chaotic (ignoring legal prohibitions to slaughtering commoners...even ones causing a riot) and evil (ignoring ethical prohibitions to the same). So the authorities throw in canisters of "poison" gas that causes 2d6 temp strength damage for its initial and secondary damage. Now they just go in, round up the leaders and bring them to justice legally and ethically without having to harm them or anyone who might defend them.

That's going to be incredibly costly!

Pop quizz: the use of which weapon is defined as a crime of war by the geneva convention? Gun or Poison?

I reckon it's because chemical weapons kill lots of civilians, and usually do so in horribly painful ways, more than because they're inherently "evil".

 

[Tiefling]

I think posion shouldn't have any alignment considerations. What the poison is used for should determine that.

P.S. Alignment sucks.

 

[Hejdun]

First, I never said those were my views on poison and alignment. Just making that clear.

Hejdun,
would these same knightly orders have the same compunction against using the sleep spell that they have against using a debilitating poison?

Their reluctance to use the aforementioned debilitating poison is more due to their taboo against anything considered poison. Those feelings hold enough sway that it would at least take a large meeting before deciding on using the (non lethal) poison gas.

Would they have the same problem using magical weapons as they would using weapons with poison on them?

No. But magic weapons aren't seen as unhonorable to them. Once again, it's not that poison is chaotic, it's that it is perceived to be chaotic. For that reason, those knightly orders don't condone the use of poison.

I'm not sure I see much of a difference, alignment-wise, from the use of poison than I do the use of magic.

Neither do I. Like I said, it's all perception.

It might not be honorable to use poison on your broadsword, but is it less honorable that using you flame-strike broadsword?

Cullain

I don't quite see the line you are drawing between poison and magic, but no matter. I actually agree generally with what you're saying.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

That's going to be incredibly costly! I reckon it's because chemical weapons kill lots of civilians, and usually do so in horribly painful ways, more than because they're inherently "evil".

I was talking about poison in that example. I only refer to poison as the chemical weapon of the medieval wrold in the following argument.

The use of poison is indeed forbidden by the geneva convention. As are most kind of non-standard bullets such as Dum-Dum. As are combat knifes with small ''canals'' allowing for the free flow of blood even when stuck in someone's leg (so as to make sure the target dies from blood loss even if the knife isn't removed).

Is it evil to use these? Perhaps, perhaps not. But it's definitely a war crime.

That was my point; you can justify the use of poison really well and really convincingly. You might even be right. That's still not going to improve the perception of the people aware of your actions.

Mind you, perception won't change your alignment. But it can and probably will change you into an hunted man.

 

[Joust]

Some interesting points in this thread. Just a couple of thoughts:

It seems to me that an obvious reason the designers of D&D made poison a fairly limited option (assassins, evil characters) was that if they didn't, a large percentage of players would use it, thus slowing the game and making it too predictable. (Imagine rolling a Fort save every time you take damage in battle, and then a minute later).

When a player in my group created a character back in 2e, he and I discussed him running an assassin character. I ruled that assassins could be of neutral alignment, and could use poison. It's made for a very interesting character and I have no regrets. However, if every player in my game wanted to be neutral and use poison, that would be problematic.

Just my $.02