Level Up (A5E) Is Sun Wukong a valid selection for the spell Polymorph?

[Sepulchre]

Thanks to all who weighed in. Very helpful. A generic “sage monkey” without any equipment makes sense. Of course, that stat block doesn’t actually exist, so it’s probably not RAW (and this is probably an abusive edge case anyway so not RAI).

The irony is that even with all that legendary equipment, a 12+ level caster probably has better things to do with their concentration than LARPing being a 20th level monk/rogue. Good for spell casters.

What about elite or legendary beasts? These presumably cannot be ruled out of bounds on the ground that they are unique or a specific individual, but the interaction does not seem intentional.

Thanks again.

 

[the Jester]

Agreed, I think he is miss-typed. Su should not be a beast. That type is supposed to be reserved for less intelligent mundane animals.

Welllllll.... although it's not an issue by the book, the problem here is dolphins and whales. In my game, they are Beasts with human-level intelligence. And, while you generally don't find supernatural abilities in most Beasts, you might well find a blue whale wizard or narwhal warlock.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

The mythological version of Sun Wukong was just a sage Monkey, so "awakened" beast is appropriate from the mythic perspective.

But it is a very generous interpretation of RAW and yeah, I’d rule awakened Unique leveled beasts dont count for polymorph (and like @steels12 I too would soundly beat anyone trying to pull this off)

either that or declare that Sun Wukong is the only member of the Vanara Heritage and not a Beast

But in D&D 5e terms that is not a “beast” in my understanding. Though I’m not 100% the correct classification now that “magical beast” is no longer a type.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Welllllll.... although it's not an issue by the book, the problem here is dolphins and whales. In my game, they are Beasts with human-level intelligence. And, while you generally don't find supernatural abilities in most Beasts, you might well find a blue whale wizard or narwhal warlock.

Sure, you can do whatever you want, but Sun doesn’t really fit the 5e SRD version of beast IMO:

“Beasts are nonhumanoid creatures that are a natural part of the fantasy ecology. Some of them have magical powers, but most are unintelligent and lack any society or language. Beasts include all varieties of ordinary animals, dinosaurs, and giant versions of animals.”

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Thanks to all who weighed in. Very helpful. A generic “sage monkey” without any equipment makes sense. Of course, that stat block doesn’t actually exist, so it’s probably not RAW (and this is probably an abusive edge case anyway so not RAI).

The irony is that even with all that legendary equipment, a 12+ level caster probably has better things to do with their concentration than LARPing being a 20th level monk/rogue. Good for spell casters.

What about elite or legendary beasts? These presumably cannot be ruled out of bounds on the ground that they are unique or a specific individual, but the interaction does not seem intentional.

Thanks again.

Elite wouldn’t qualify as though they are the same CR, they are 2x the XP. The are not equal.

 

[the Jester]

Sure, you can do whatever you want, but Sun doesn’t really fit the 5e SRD version of beast IMO:

“Beasts are nonhumanoid creatures that are a natural part of the fantasy ecology. Some of them have magical powers, but most are unintelligent and lack any society or language. Beasts include all varieties of ordinary animals, dinosaurs, and giant versions of animals.”

Oh, I'd agree with you on that. I also think that the Beast vs. Monstrosity dichotomy is a hot mess; I think an owlbear should be a Beast and a giant eagle should not be a Beast.

 

[Tonguez]

a giant eagle should not be a Beast.

why should a giant eagle not be a beast? innit just a big clever bird?

agreed about owlbears though

 

[Morrus]

Yeah the A5E definition of Beast is "Beasts are natural animals whose existence and abilities are nonmagical. A bear and a tyrannosaurus rex are both beasts."

Sun Wukong doesn't meet that definition, IMO.

 

[the Jester]

why should a giant eagle not be a beast? innit just a big clever bird?

agreed about owlbears though

I phrased that badly. I think under the current paradigm, when many giant versions of beasts are Monstrosities, giant eagles should also be Monstrosities, because they have a high intelligence and speak a language. My own rewiring of creature types would move most of those giant critters into the Beast category, along with griffons, owlbears, etc. Those with magical abilities should not be Beasts unless they have acquired those abilities over time, like the aforementioned whale wizard.

I feel like giant eagles are a weird case that, by the current system, looks a lot like it should be a Monstrosity. At least to me.

 

[Morrus]

So I mentioned this to @Mike Myler who designed the stat block.

It was created by using the awaken spell -- which doesn't change the creature type. So Sun Wukong is -- at least RAW -- technically still a beast, albeit a sentient one.

That said I would definitely stick to 'you can't change into unique beings'. He's a monkey which had a whole bunch of unique stuff happen, and gained class levels and unique powers. But from a polymorph POV, he's a regular monkey, and that's what you'd change into.

That's just my interpretation though.