Is the barbarian too powerful in your campaign?

[Plane Sailing]

Personally, I think the class is way underpowered. For starters I would probably make rage something the class can do at will.

have you seen the alternative version in PHB II? It looks like a nice idea; I forget the details, but basically it kicks in every time the Barb gets below a certain hp threshold (and won't kill him instantly when it wears off!)

 

[Acid_crash]

I don't think it's overpowering, just like the wizard isn't overpowering when it gets his massive killing spells and the cleric has almost unlimited healing ability, etc.

This is D&D. There is no balance. There is no such thing as too overpowering...

unless the DM runs the game that way!

 

[Plane Sailing]

For example, does your barbarian typically do a bazillion points of damage and have massively more hp's than other characters pretty much 4-5x overshadowing all other characters in the game (with the possible exception of an overspecialized fighter)?

Not my experience.

The barbarians rarely have more hit points than other fighting types (an average of 1 per level extra just doesn't appear above the radar) and because they are gung-ho charge in kinda guys the end up being killed more quickly than the other players.

I would say that all the DMs I play with nixed the 2-for-1 power attack with 2H weapons as soon as we saw it in 3e; that probably contributes towards them being more balanced for us.

2-for-1 power attack hugely magnifies the damage that can be achieved by 2H weapon users, so you might want to try removing that (if you are the DM)

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

I got to play that one a lot, too (bad will saves are a bad thing against spellcasters or vampires or anything else with mental control abilities).

Don't forget that raging barbarians have better will saves than fighters or rangers and their ilk!

 

[Evilhalfling]

a archtype 20 str .5 orc overshadowed a sunless citadel game, partally because the rest of the party was not optimized to any extent. By third level the party was better balanced as the Barbarians lack of armor became more apparent and the spell casters begain to hold their own.

So really its only bad at the low levels where hide armor is compative.
it should balance out eventually.

 

[Emirikol]

The barbarians rarely have more hit points than other fighting types (an average of 1 per level extra just doesn't appear above the radar)

I respectfully disagree.

The barbarian only has two stats he has to worry about: strength and con. Barbarians almost always have a ginormous con (16+) giving them typically a lot more hit points.

I'll have to see how this balances out.

We're playing LOWER-MAGIC D&D in the world of Conan (essentially, all spellcasters have to take two levels of a non-spellcaster class). The rogues, swashbucklers and fighters seem to be horribly outshined by the barbarians who are doing what seems like exponentially more amounts of damage. I suppose that should be the case though right? How much is too much? Should the bbn be doing 10x the amount of damage as other classes?

We're having fun though

jh

..

 

[Tzarevitch]

Do you play mostly low level (1-5)?

Barbarians at low level deal tripple or more of most other PC's damage and with their HP can roll through most opponents. But at higher level the barbarian get's easily outdamaged by arcane casters, has a craptacular AC, is inflexible and all the hitpoints in the World won't help him against a dragons or giants full attack.

Exactly the point I was going to make. They tend to be quite good at lower levels when ACs all around tend to be low and HP are low as well. In later levels barbarians tend to take horrific damage because of their low AC. Once the fighter gets enough money for better gear, the AC difference can reach a 12-point shift easily.

Good Barbarian AC: 10 + 10 armor (Brestplate +5), +3 Dex, -2 rage, +5 deflection (Ring +5) = 26
Good fighter AC: 10 + 13 armor (Full Plate +5), +9 shield (Tower Shield +5), +1 Dex, Ring +5 = 38

Of course the barbarian is probably using a Greatsword or Greataxe and the fighter is using a Bastard Sword 1 handed (because he can spare the feat). That AC difference at higher levels is translates into up to +24 damage per hit from a power-attacking giant using a 2 handed weapon.

The extra damage the barbarian can inflict gets counterbalanced rather severely by the beating he tends to take from other heavy melee types. Mithril plate mail tends to help a bit with 3 extra points of AC, but that is still woefuly short of the fighter who can use Adamantine platemail and get a DR 3/- to further cut down on his damage.

Most barbarians don't use shields simply because you loose some of the biggest benefit the barbarian has (the bonus Str) unless you use a 2 hander for 1+1/2 str. Of course the fighter will dish out less damage in sword-and-board mode as well, but he will be far more survivable in the land of hard-hitting, high BAB opponents.

Tzarevitch

 

[Victim]

The extra damage the barbarian can inflict gets counterbalanced rather severely by the beating he tends to take from other heavy melee types. Mithril plate mail tends to help a bit with 3 extra points of AC, but that is still woefuly short of the fighter who can use Adamantine platemail and get a DR 3/- to further cut down on his damage.

Most barbarians don't use shields simply because you loose some of the biggest benefit the barbarian has (the bonus Str) unless you use a 2 hander for 1+1/2 str. Of course the fighter will dish out less damage in sword-and-board mode as well, but he will be far more survivable in the land of hard-hitting, high BAB opponents.

Tzarevitch

Well, the barbarian will have better DR than that from Adamatine anyway, so using Mithril is pretty much a no brainer for them. And they could use an Animated Shield to make up for using a 2 handed weapon. So it's more like:

Good Barbarian AC: 10 + 12 armor (Mithril Plate +4), +3 Dex, -2 rage, +5 shield (+3 Animated Lg Shield), +5 deflection (Ring +5) = 33
Good fighter AC: 10 + 13 armor (Full Plate +5), +9 shield (Tower Shield +5), +1 Dex, Ring +5 = 38

Considering that the fighter is losing 2 points of attack because of his Tower Shield, the 5 point gap doesn't seem too bad. Of course, that assumes that the barbarian gets his Dex for free - the gap widens a couple points if that's constrained.

 

[Felon]

Has anyone tried the PHBII's variant rule for barbarians, where they fly into a rage automatically whenever they're low on HP?

 

[Nyaricus]

Em, why not scale back the aquisition of Str and Con bonuses - +2 Str/Con at first, etc? This wouldn't make it THAT great of a dip class anymore, not tomention balancing for your specific game.

Consider the -AC, and whether to half it or leave it as-is

cheers,
--N