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The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Is the red box all it's cracked up to be?
- Thread starter Summer-Knight925
- Start date
Plaguedguy
First Post
I wouldn't. The hardcover PHBs cost over $10 more than the Heroes of... books on Amazon. While the trade off is fewer classes/races, the price is right if you're on a tight gaming budget.
Now, could you replace the Dungeon Master's Kit with the Hardcover Dungeon Master's Guide? Sure, but you lose tokens, maps an a superior (compared to Kobold Hall) adventure to save around $3.
UnknownAtThisTime
First Post
I am the rare bird that believes if you understand the mechanics and have other materials, a DDi/CB subscription is a good way to manage character creation and options. There is no 'need' for the PHB in this scenario.
You could get it instead of one of the Heroes books - they serve the same purpose. I mainly recommended the Heroes books here because they are cheaper, and budget issues were mentioned. The PHB probably gets you more overall content for the money, but isn't as portable or as easy to use.
The Heroes books aren't 4.5 because they don't replace the PHB - you can still go and get it and have it perfectly usable. But they are an alternate entry point to the game, and one aimed at being clearer and more concise for new players. So it is a more useful tool for new players, even though those who already have a PHB don't have any need to go out and replace it with anything frmo Essentials.
OnlineDM
Adventurer
I have all of the PHBs and both Herores books, and I think the Heroes books are better. You still get "core 4e" class design with classes like the Mage and Warpriest, but you also get the "no dailies" class design for players who want to streamline their decision-making.
I don't think the errata is such a big deal; sure, there are things in PHB1 that have been updated, but you could play it as written in most groups without any trouble.
I just personally like the class and race design in the Heroes books better than in PHB1. I also like the artwork, the portability, the lower cost and the writing style (more fluff about the races and classes).
PHB1 is still completely valid for players who want those classes. But for a new player, I'm going to point them to the Heroes books every time. If they want more class options and don't want to go with DDI (though I would definitely recommend DDI), then sure, have them pick up the various PHBs. But not as a starting point.
What's good about the set:
- cheap
- the solo adventure does an excellent job of easing a new player into the 4e mindset. I was a hater, had dropped out, this brought me back (though only Essentials). It also teaches the basic rules very well.
- production values are good
- product is clearly written and engaging
What's not so good to bad:
- the solo adventure has to be played four times to make four characters. This has to be done before the group session, so the book has to change hands four times (getting five people to each buy this set is absolute overkill).
- lots and lots of mistakes in the rules. Examples contradict the rules text (which is generally correct). This makes the set look sloppy and is needlessly confusing for new players, especially those new to RPGs.
- the group adventure is blah - clichéed, too hard for newbies, hardly any opportunity for roleplaying, the villain is just there to be killed... Plus the entire dungeon has this (bad) old-school static feel, where the monsters/opponents are standing behind the door waiting to be killed by the PCs.
- the characters you make do not correspond to the characters you make when upgrading to the Essentials books. Once again an incredible oversight/mess-up.
- Only two levels are covered in the set - which means that its usefulness will be over at the end of the group adventure, more or less.
So, WOTC dropped the ball on this one but got me back on board nevertheless...
- cheap
- the solo adventure does an excellent job of easing a new player into the 4e mindset. I was a hater, had dropped out, this brought me back (though only Essentials). It also teaches the basic rules very well.
- production values are good
- product is clearly written and engaging
What's not so good to bad:
- the solo adventure has to be played four times to make four characters. This has to be done before the group session, so the book has to change hands four times (getting five people to each buy this set is absolute overkill).
- lots and lots of mistakes in the rules. Examples contradict the rules text (which is generally correct). This makes the set look sloppy and is needlessly confusing for new players, especially those new to RPGs.
- the group adventure is blah - clichéed, too hard for newbies, hardly any opportunity for roleplaying, the villain is just there to be killed... Plus the entire dungeon has this (bad) old-school static feel, where the monsters/opponents are standing behind the door waiting to be killed by the PCs.
- the characters you make do not correspond to the characters you make when upgrading to the Essentials books. Once again an incredible oversight/mess-up.
- Only two levels are covered in the set - which means that its usefulness will be over at the end of the group adventure, more or less.
So, WOTC dropped the ball on this one but got me back on board nevertheless...
Summer-Knight925
First Post
I think I'll stay with 3.5
but start them with JUST the three corebooks
not to overwhelm them ya know?
11 class choices, 7 races, weapons and armor and spells and feats and skills..all that from the three books
hard part is I have a player and she wants to play a Valkyrie type character, so i built an order "the daughters of war" and they worrship valkyrie (who collect the souls of warriors and bring them to the upper planes where they can train and prepare for the end war)
paladin sound like a good idea?
but start them with JUST the three corebooks
not to overwhelm them ya know?
11 class choices, 7 races, weapons and armor and spells and feats and skills..all that from the three books
hard part is I have a player and she wants to play a Valkyrie type character, so i built an order "the daughters of war" and they worrship valkyrie (who collect the souls of warriors and bring them to the upper planes where they can train and prepare for the end war)
paladin sound like a good idea?
