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Is the RPG Industry on Life Support? (Merged w/"Nothing Dies")

Sholari

First Post
Is the RPG Industry on Life Support?

A friend who just got back from GenCon Socal was relating to me one of the seminars he sat through on the State of the RPG Industry. Besides relating that the news was on the depressing side, he confirmed something that I have suspected for the last year or so… that the industry is losing players. Personally, I think there is some real leadership needed otherwise the table top hobby as we know it is going to atrophy significantly over the next 5-10 years. While I don’t expect everyone to agree with the points I’m about to make, I want to at least get I dialogue going. Often we are so focused on the details of our hobby, that we fail to look at the big picture.

The following my thoughts about the failings of the industry as a whole:

1) Rules Complexity: While there has been enormous creativity in a lot of the rules and options, it is particularly daunting for new players coming into the game. Experienced players may be able to browse through loads of prestige classes, feats, etc., but for a new player this represents potentially thousands of pages of material they may have to understand and synthesize. Moreover, the complexity of 3.5 is greater than past editions. Admittedly, I like 3.5 the best, but I’ve witnessed more DM burnout with 3.5 than with any addition in the past. A good deal of this can be attributed to the added complexity of 3.5 and its proliferation of options. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be for a new DM, just trying to figure out the basics of what books should I buy when there are some many rules variants out there or how to balance all the feats and prestige classes to preserve a game in the long run.

2) Fragmentation: Around the time that TSR was near its end, one of the major problems the sheer number of different game worlds really split its customer base and made it harder to put a group together. It also reduced the utility of game books. If you bought a book for Ravenloft it was very difficult to integrate it with Hollow World perhaps. While some of the initial books from 3rd edition were easy to integrate, over time there has been a sharper increase in industry fragmentation. Not only do you have people fragmented by OD&D, 1st Ed, 2nd Ed, 3rd Ed, 3.5 Ed. But now you have people fragmented by d20 Future, d20 Modern, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Dragonlance, Iron Kingdoms, Home Brew, and just a slew more. I’d say this is analogous to having too many programming languages in the computer industry. All the variety is great but learning each new iteration is an investment of time. With people split over some many iterations, I think it has really hurt the industry.

3) New Blood: I remember seeing a poll here some time ago about when people on this board had started roleplaying and was struck to see it was about 10-14 years of age. As I look back the people that stuck with the hobby over the years often started at that age. The game is a lot more likely to capture your imagination in these preteen years and as your transition past this age your probability of trying and/or sticking with the game diminishes. I’d say this is a very unique example of customer lifetime value. The industry acquires its customer 10-14 year age range and for the next 30+ years it harvests value from that customer. The games currently are not very good at acquiring customers in that critical age range because with the proliferation of options and material it is just to darn complex for the average 10-14 year to understand or DM. We need a more simplified version to bring in new players and DMs at this age range. It is more than must just a boxed set, but a significant amount of support material that captures their imagination of the average preteen and good marketing campaign that really appeals to them (not us old groknards).

4) Lack of Leadership: This is just my impression but I think Wizards of the Coast made a huge mistake it letting some very talented people who knew the industry go. When it was acquired by Hasbro it got rid of the game developers who really understood the fundamentals of the industry and replaced them with marketers that didn’t. With what the company is putting out now, I think Wizards of the Coast is really struggling to find its place in the industry. It has opted for a heavy rules and options orientation but is often beaten to the punch by third party publishers. Furthermore, (with the exception of Eberron) its recent work ranks among the most uninspiring and lacks forethought as to the future of the hobby.

5) Lack of Inspiration: First, a disclaimer… there are some very notable exceptions to this such as Dungeon Magazine, Iron Kingdoms, Eberron, etc., however, the bulk of stuff put out by the roleplaying industry lacks inspiration. There are just too many books on prestige classes, feats, etc. with no context other to give players and unfair advantage over game balance. If the gaming industry were a farmer its activities would be broken into two parts. There are certain activities that grow the grain and other activities that harvest the grain. Growing the grain helps to build the player base of the industry as a whole, however, harvesting the grain is what makes money. What increases the player base of the industry are memorable roleplaying experiences and what helps to create these are modules, works with more fluff than crunch, good DMing, etc. Unfortunately, the products which support these activities are not in themselves profitable for individual companies but benefit the industry as a whole. Other activities such as crunch books are what harvest the grain and what actually make money for companies. I’d argue that the majority of gaming companies these days are far too caught up in harvesting the grain and not enough are growing the grain. And who is to blame them because they are in business to make money, but the industry as a whole needs to somehow think about how to support both activities.

6) Lack of Stewardship – I’m sorry to say this but the majority of roleplayers are just not very good representatives of our hobby. We have to take a step back and think how we come across to the general populace. What mom is going to want her kid playing roleplaying games when a large proportion of the roleplaying populace is in bad shape, bad health, lack manners, are not friendly, wear dour expressions half the time, etc. I know I’m overgeneralizing a bit here but there is a lot we can do to be better representatives for our hobby.

Anyway, I apologize in advance if I have offended anybody. The intent is that I want to see roleplaying games continue to thrive for years to come and not go the way of something like bridge where it’s mainly played in old folks homes. I encourage you to disagree with me, but if you do my challenge to you is to identify what are the industry’s problems and what can we do about them for the future.
 
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First, I'll say that I don't think that the RPG industry is anywhere NEAR being on life support. In fact, I think its doing absolutely great. But one of your points is something that needs to be repeated...

Sholari said:
3) New Blood: I remember seeing a poll here some time ago about when people on this board had started roleplaying and was struck to see it was about 10-14 years of age. As I look back the people that stuck with the hobby over the years often started at that age. The game is a lot more likely to capture your imagination in these preteen years and as your transition past this age your probability of trying and/or sticking with the game diminishes. I’d say this is a very unique example of customer lifetime value. The industry acquires its customer 10-14 year age range and for the next 30+ years it harvests value from that customer. The games currently are not very good at acquiring customers in that critical age range because with the proliferation of options and material it is just to darn complex for the average 10-14 year to understand or DM. We need a more simplified version to bring in new players and DMs at this age range. It is more than must just a boxed set, but a significant amount of support material that captures their imagination of the average preteen and good marketing campaign that really appeals to them (not us old groknards).

That is important. But the problem isn't the game. The problem isn't that video games are better, etc etc. The problem is that no one really goes out and introduces new players. I graduated from high school last year, and the I had worried that perhaps all these video games and difficult rules, etc etc would make it impossible to get new players. But I tried introducting a few people to it.

These people were the classic video game kids that have short attention spans. They LOVED D&D. The rules complexity wasn't a problem at all. In fact, they loved having all these options. So, one success. I did this again and ended up creating multiple groups within the school. The kids are THERE and would gladly play. The problem is that the best way to get new players involved in the hobby is to have a more experienced player introduce them TO the game. The game DOES appeal to these kids, they just don't know its out there just yet. Help them. Sure, they'll probably prefer a less 'role'playing style at first, but you have to start somewhere. We need to stop looking down on younger players and 'video game players' and realize that they are ALL potential RPG players.
 

Sholari

First Post
Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
First, I'll say that I don't think that the RPG industry is anywhere NEAR being on life support. In fact, I think its doing absolutely great. But one of your points is something that needs to be repeated...

Yeah, life support is a bit sensationalist of me. I'd agree it is not on life support per se.
 
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fusangite

First Post
While I don't agree with all of your points, I will agree that it was a real miscalculation to make D&D combat dependent on miniatures and too complex for kids to run. We need a Basic D&D with no attacks of opportunity, no flanking but strong compatibility so that people can "graduate" to the full version if they wish to.
 

Telperion

First Post
[rant warning]

I more or less agree with points all the points you made, Sholari.

For my part I spend countless hours creating innovating, captivating and interesting short stories that anyone can come to and enjoy. Once every two weeks I go to a local RPG organization and run a game. There are some regulars, but every now and then a new person comes to the games. Sometimes they get interested and sometimes they don't.

However, I have run into a problem: there is a young boy (12 - 14 years of age) in my current group of newbies, and I have no idea how to "reach" him. I mean he comes to the sessions, understands the mechanics and reads english better than some of the adults I play with (keep in mind that in my country teaching of elementary english only begins when a student reaches the age of 9). So, as far as foreign languages are concerned, this kid is a genius! So, what to do with him? How do I help him perceive that there is more to D&D than just hack'n'slash? I don't run combat oriented sessions all that often, but will the kid still be around when we get to a more socially oriented session? One session is all I get with most of them...

Anyway, I do my part in trying to bring this hobby to new players. It just isn't all that easy. There's a lot of competition with a society that is into high-technology and electronic conveniances. Your average parent can't motivate someone in the age of 10 - 14 to pick up a book and really get into it. The way I see these things is that the kids in today's society get quite enough of books when they are in school. Very few of them are going to be interested in "wasting" their time with books when they are out of school. Heck, they have a playstation, gamecube, xbox or a computer at home. With that kind of tools to entertain themselves, not to mention all the sports their parents' do push them towards, there are very few youngsters left for this type of a niche hobby.

I love telling stories and running interesting sessions. I constantly bring this game to new players. What more can I do?

[/rant warning]
 


DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
I think it's important not to combine the "state of the RPG industry" while only using D&D/d20 examples.

On the other hand, if the industry is in decline, I really don't see that as (necessarily) a bad thing.

I do think the RPG market is saturated with games, so if it declines a bit, well, so be it.

Of course, I'm at a point now where I really don't need any more new RPGs (D&D or otherwise). If they come out, great, but if not, I'm fine with that too. There's enough already out there to last several lifetimes.
 

Sholari

First Post
DaveMage said:
I think it's important not to combine the "state of the RPG industry" while only using D&D/d20 examples.

On the other hand, if the industry is in decline, I really don't see that as (necessarily) a bad thing.

I do think the RPG market is saturated with games, so if it declines a bit, well, so be it.

Of course, I'm at a point now where I really don't need any more new RPGs (D&D or otherwise). If they come out, great, but if not, I'm fine with that too. There's enough already out there to last several lifetimes.

Though Dave I think there is a difference between decline of poor quality material on the market, and decline of the player base as a whole. While I wouldn't mind seeing a more limited set of higher quality material on the market, I would mind if people started dropping out of the hobby.
 
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Telperion

First Post
DaveMage said:
Of course, I'm at a point now where I really don't need any more new RPGs (D&D or otherwise). If they come out, great, but if not, I'm fine with that too. There's enough already out there to last several lifetimes.

Same here, although I obviously don't have quite so much material lying around ;). However I do have a whole lot of material that I have read through, but never actually used. And it's good material too! So, I would hazard a guess that I'm good for another 10 - 15 years of DMing without additional material from any RPG company. I'm actually cutting down on my RPG purchases these days: I'm buying the Complete Series, but that's mostly for my players, since they want generic material they can use in any given campaign. WotC's environment series left me cold, so that's one example out of a whole lot of products I won't be buying. Same with these various Races books. Dragonomicon was good, but I don't like dragons. They are just too perfect. Libris Mortis wasn't that interesting either, since I have all the undead I need. Codex Anathema, however, is something I might be interested in, but that's not coming out for many months now...

...so, basically I'm getting very picky about what I'm buying...

Of course I'll still keep buying fantasy / sci-fi / fiction literature and using that as innovation, but that's the way I get my creative juices going. Read what others have written, transform it to suit my personal taste, change it beyond all recognition and use it any way I see fit.
 

spacecrime.com

First Post
I am curious which people your friend got his information from, and what data those people are using to base the conclusions you present.

cheers,
 
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