Is the Unearthed Arcana SRD online?

[Cergorach]

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'VE JUST LOST ANOTHER HOUR TYPING ANOTHER LOST MESSAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, i've had this happen to me far to often in the last couple of years, so when i type up a long post, or a post i spend lot of effort on, i copy the text to a txt file on my desktop and save it there. Much safer that way!

 

[jgbrowning]

Ok, i've had this happen to me far to often in the last couple of years, so when i type up a long post, or a post i spend lot of effort on, i copy the text to a txt file on my desktop and save it there. Much safer that way!

This is now SOP with me if the message is longer than a paragraph. I figure that if I'm willing to take the time to write, I better be willing to take the time to backup.

joe b.

 

[Wasgo]

Since this topic is 16 pages long, I wanted to see if I missed any points.

There are two basic opinions.
1.) Publishers using the OGL must abide by any and all consequences of using said license. If they don't want to have those types of problems, don't use the license.
2.) Publishers occasionaly use the OGL more generously than is required, so there is an unwritten code of ethics in how the OGC should then be used.

Consequences of number one are that gamers and publishers can maximize their benifit by using the material however they deem fit, and that publishing large quantities of it online is a valid use. It makes gamers happier and is well within the license. This may or may not decrease sales and lead to more stringent declarations of OGC. People believe this is either irrelevent, or simply not true.

Consequences of number two are that people have to try to factor in values that are not explicitly stated, such as the publisher's opinion. This in turn poses a problem as it limits the use of OGC, and makes it difficult to determine what is fair. The rebuttal to this is that while it may be hard to determine an exact line, republishing an entire product on that line obviously crosses it.

So, in making a decision there are two factors:

1.) What are the consequences of republishing OGC online?
2.) Is fair determined by the license or some other unknown element?

Since number one is fairly ambiguous and completely speculative, it is unlikely any consensus would be reached. Moreover, the consequences have different meanings to different people, as they have different level of relevances they attach. Similarly, people's valuation of fair, is not likely to change and no general agreement will be reached on that.

Since I personally don't think any opinions are going to change at this juncture, I think this topic should be left to people who actually want to undertake this venture (which I still don't agree with). Further argument isn't really going to change anything.

 

[Nellisir]

There are two basic opinions.
1.) Publishers using the OGL must abide by any and all consequences of using said license. If they don't want to have those types of problems, don't use the license.
2.) Publishers occasionaly use the OGL more generously than is required, so there is an unwritten code of ethics in how the OGC should then be used.

I think that's a reasonable summation. For myself, I intend to type up (or OCR) those parts of UA I need & want for my current projects. Once those projects are complete, the relevant sections of UA will be available through my work.

I also like the d20 Exchange's policy, which is to index, but not hold, OGC material from resources that are essentially 100% OGC.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Wasgo]

After reading through the license again, I thought I'd throw in another post. Two little points.

1.) Due to it's trademarked nature, the online OGC could not be called the Unearthed Arcana SRD. Unearthed Arcana is a registered trademark of WotC and not OGC.
2.) More importantly,

11. Use of Contributor Credits: You may not market or advertise the Open Game Content using the name of any Contributor unless You have written permission from the Contributor to do so.

so it can't even by advertised as having anything to do with WotC. The only place WotC can appear at all in in the copyright section of the accompanying OGL. Moreover, advertising blurbs sent to news websites, could neither mention WotC or Arcana Unearthed. So essentially you'd have a Alternative Rules SRD, which you couldn't mention was from a WotC product, except in the license, and even then it wouldn't say it directly. Given those restrictions, it's much harder to imagine it having quite the same impact. I wonder if allowing OGC to be sorted by contributer would be in violation of section 11...but that's a whole seperate topic.

Also, interestingly enough, by republishing it, any third party who wanted to cut and paste the rules, would legally be obligated to credit the newly renamed SRD in the OGL. Nothing important mind you, but kind of funny considering no new content would be added.

 

[RavenProject]

Also, interestingly enough, by republishing it, any third party who wanted to cut and paste the rules, would legally be obligated to credit the newly renamed SRD in the OGL. Nothing important mind you, but kind of funny considering no new content would be added.

Why? The result of copying from the so called "renamed SRD" is identical to retyping directly from the book. A designer could copy/paste from the "alternative rules SRD" and still credit the original UA. No difference can be seen. It would only be a problem if he officialy explains, how he did it.

 

[Wasgo]

Why? The result of copying from the so called "renamed SRD" is identical to retyping directly from the book. A designer could copy/paste from the "alternative rules SRD" and still credit the original UA. No difference can be seen. It would only be a problem if he officialy explains, how he did it.

Hence why I said legally obligated.

 

[The Sigil]

Simply put, I don't think putting the OGC contents of UA online as an SRD is legal. Why? Because of this:

Quote:
(d)"Open Game Content" means the game mechanic ...to the extent such content ...is an enhancement over the prior art".

You're looking at the wrong parts of the Open Game License there, chief. That only tells you WHAT is OGC, not how you can use it, and you omitted one very important clause.

(d)"Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity.

The stuff italicized above is, in essence, the "minimum" for OGC - i.e., anything that meets the above criterion MUST be open game content. The stuff bolded above is the "optional part" - i.e., what can go beyond the minimum.

Since WotC's designation of OGC in UA was "all text that is not PI" and their PI clause was specific to a few monsters plus proper names, all text that is not in one of the above classes is Open Game Content by virtue of the "any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor."

Now that we have identified WHAT is OGC, let us look at HOW it can be used.

(g) "Use", "Used" or "Using" means to use, Distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create Derivative Material of Open Game Content.
(c) "Distribute" means to reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute;

4. Grant and Consideration: In consideration for agreeing to use this License, the Contributors grant You a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license with the exact terms of this License to Use, the Open Game Content.

These are the clauses that tell you what you can DO with the "WHAT" that is Open Game Content, not the clause that defines what OGC is. Note that one of the acceptable ways of using Open Game Content is "copying."

Thus, taking out vast swaths of text from Unearthed Arcana and copying it is QUITE legal, provided you do not copy any Product Identity (which, because WotC's designation is pretty clear about, you should be able to easily avoid).

Thus, the Open Game License explicitly allows you to copy and publicly display any material that has been contributed as Open Game Content. No "enhancement" of any kind is required.

IANAL etc.

--The Sigil

 

[Cergorach]

Thank Sigil, that's a lot clearer then i could have said it. Although i do 'understand' the OGL, explaining it is a lot harder.. ;-)

 

[barsoomcore]

Sigil, I wish you'd joined this party earlier. You've managed to so neatly encapsulate the issues, and have offered such clear analyses of the positions I've been laboriously trying to work out and present, that I wish I'd just waited until you arrived.

Thanks for that.