Is the Wizard the most powerful class?

[Victim]

Actually, when you think about REALLY high levels, the Wizard IS a whole lot more powerful than the cleric. He keeps gaining more and more spells, and is therefore more powerful, while the cleric does not.

And when you think in terms of legends and novels, these big bad wizards are (in game terms) almost as a rule, Epic.

Umm, how are epic wizards getting more and more spells? Spells per day caps off after level 20 unless you take certain feats, and clerics can get those too.

 

[Angcuru]

Wizards gain 2 spell levels per epic level to distribute amongst 0-9 LVL spells.

And on a different note, I've finished writing up a central NPC (epic cleric/wizard) to my campaign, and with her equipment and feat selection, she's capable of casting 15 spells in a single round (Mind you this involves a max-effect time stop, but STILL).

We're talking

Fire Storm x2
Storm of Vengeance x2
Maximized Fireball x5
Meteor Swarm x2
Wail of the Banshee
Incendiary Cloud
Slay Living
Finger of Death

that's a lot of killing for a single round.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

Cleric.

All the way from level 1 through level 20, when compared to every other class of that level.

The above reasons are all that's needed.

 

[Ave Rage]

Wizards gain 2 spell levels per epic level to distribute amongst 0-9 LVL spells.

And on a different note, I've finished writing up a central NPC (epic cleric/wizard) to my campaign, and with her equipment and feat selection, she's capable of casting 15 spells in a single round (Mind you this involves a max-effect time stop, but STILL).

We're talking

Fire Storm x2
Storm of Vengeance x2
Maximized Fireball x5
Meteor Swarm x2
Wail of the Banshee
Incendiary Cloud
Slay Living
Finger of Death

that's a lot of killing for a single round.

Like I said before, it's not about the rules. I saw a "Ultima Smackdown" where a wizard had a bunch of delay blast' spells going off at the same time which was pretty impressive. Also, why couldn't a wizard do all that?

 

[Omegium]

Gamewise speaking, it depends completely on the setting who is more powerful. But as far as I know, in literature and movies, you often see a powerful wizard, and hardly very powerful clerics.
Statwise speaking, its the wizard. Absolutely. In an tournament, 20 wiz vs. 20 clr, if he has time to prepare, the wizard always wins. Teleport, haste, timestop, meteorswarm, mordenkainers disjunction, finger of death.. the cleric is gone. And certainly with prestige classes, if possible those of FR, you can get dc's that can't be saved.
In a more realistic dungeon crawl situation where the wizard doesn't know what to prepare for, it depends on the DM

 

[s/LaSH]

Did... did you just say 'realistic' in the same sentence as 'dungeon crawl'?

I'm sorry. I'll shut up now. Although before I do so I should point out the difference between in-dungeon and out-dungeon power, which hasn't really been considered... does an arcane caster have more ability to shape the world? Or does that prize go to druids or something?

 

[Victim]

Wizards gain 2 spell levels per epic level to distribute amongst 0-9 LVL spells.

And on a different note, I've finished writing up a central NPC (epic cleric/wizard) to my campaign, and with her equipment and feat selection, she's capable of casting 15 spells in a single round (Mind you this involves a max-effect time stop, but STILL).

We're talking

Fire Storm x2
Storm of Vengeance x2
Maximized Fireball x5
Meteor Swarm x2
Wail of the Banshee
Incendiary Cloud
Slay Living
Finger of Death

that's a lot of killing for a single round.

Yes, wizards learn two spells each epic level. But that's known spells, and not spells/day. Clerics already know all their spells.

 

[Moleculo]

non rules wise, it is theoretically possible for a Cleric to be more powerful than a wizard. you have to remember the whole worshiping an idea. It is completely possible for a Cleric to be devoted to the idea/notion/force of Good. For some reason it seemed to me that in 3e, Clerics cast spells more on their faith rather than the actual request of the gods; otherwise it'd be impossible for non-dietied clerics to cast spells. And in that respect, if you think about it the Cleric really could be more powerful since the Wizard has to use a ridgid language to construct his plethora of ideas, while the Cleric really just needs to imagine what he needs and then have enough faith to make it happen. I mean the Cleric wouldnt even need to research for chissake.

 

[Pbartender]

I mean the Cleric wouldnt even need to research for ch(r)i(st')ssake.

Now there's an interesting turn of phrase.

 

[s/LaSH]

Although if you take it as 'chi's' sake you have a wholly different meaning. Chi being an inner strength normally used by monks (and spelt 'ki'), but I'm sure clerics could attribute self-defined powers to chi as well.

Basically we're talking about Buddha, right? Who went off and became a Perfect Being who gods payed homage to? (Please don't quote me on this. I've never seriously studied buddhism.)