Is there a difference between First Strike and Seize the Moment?

[NeoNick]

Is there a difference between rogue's class ability "First Strike" (PH page 117) and the paragon feat "Seize the Moment" (PH page 205)?

And if so; what is the difference?

 

[tiornys]

If there's a surprise round where both you and some enemies act, and you have a higher initiative than those enemies, Seize the Moment will continue to grant you combat advantage against them during the first normal round of combat even though they'll have acted during the surprise round.

Other than that, they're quite similar.

t~

 

[NeoNick]

Ok, thanks. Now I have a situation to further clarify surprise and CA. Please correct any errors in the below reasoning.

PC surprise mobs
Suppose you have a surprise round in which the PC's surprise the monsters. Let's say that the PC rogue stealthed ahead and saw a couple of mobs in a room without them spotting him.

a) The rogue attacks and as the mobs failed their perception rolls previously they are surprised and don't get to act in that round. Correct?

b) The rogue can attack during this surpise round with CA. I think this is correct?

c) Next round is the first ordinary round and initiative is rolled. The rogue beats the mobs initiative and gets to attack again with CA even if he's non-stealthed by now. Correct?

Opposite example
If the mobs /in another example/ would surprise the PC's and jump on them in an ambush.
d) Only PC's making their Perception rolls gets to act in this surpise round. Correct?
e) Would mobs get CA during the surprise round? (It's fairly common in Keep of the Shadowfell to see a mob that gets an extra 1d6 damage when attacking with CA.)

Help apreciated.

 

[tiornys]

Ok, thanks. Now I have a situation to further clarify surprise and CA. Please correct any errors in the below reasoning.

PC surprise mobs
Suppose you have a surprise round in which the PC's surprise the monsters. Let's say that the PC rogue stealthed ahead and saw a couple of mobs in a room without them spotting him.

a) The rogue attacks and as the mobs failed their perception rolls previously they are surprised and don't get to act in that round. Correct?

Correct. Specifically, they are in the "Surprised" condition, noted on page 277 of the PHB

b) The rogue can attack during this surpise round with CA. I think this is correct?

Again correct. The rogue here gets CA from at least two sources. The enemies grant CA for being surprised, and the rogue gains CA from First Strike because they haven't acted. Even if the enemies have something like Alertness (which prevents Surprised from causing them to grant CA), the rogue would attack with CA here.

c) Next round is the first ordinary round and initiative is rolled. The rogue beats the mobs initiative and gets to attack again with CA even if he's non-stealthed by now. Correct?

Correct, until they act, he has CA against them from First Strike.

Opposite example
If the mobs /in another example/ would surprise the PC's and jump on them in an ambush.
d) Only PC's making their Perception rolls gets to act in this surpise round. Correct?

Correct.

e) Would mobs get CA during the surprise round? (It's fairly common in Keep of the Shadowfell to see a mob that gets an extra 1d6 damage when attacking with CA.)

Unless a PC has something like Alertness, PC's that are Surprised will grant CA.

t~

 

[NeoNick]

Thanks a lot for helping out!