is there such thing as a good FR novel?

[Hoju]

I have quite a lot of the FR stuff including all of Salvatore's stuff. Great fiction, no. Good , not really. Entertaining ,sure!
My wife reads harlequins every so often, I read FR.
FR is to fantasy as Harlequins are to Romance. A quick entertaining mindless read.

 

[Bob Aberton]

FR realms novels=bleaugh!!!
Elaine Cunnignhma's books are ok.
Salvatore totters on the edge of sucking
the rest of the authors don't even deserve to be named...

And I hate the way they write by the game mechanics, which, IMO, does not make for a good novel.

Maybe I just hate FR.

 

[Son_of_Thunder]

Salvatore Rules!!!

Greetings fellow ENers!

I'll agree with most of what's been said about Forgotten Realm novels. However R.A. Salvatore's novels are the best Realms out there. Salvatore is an accomplished author with a huge fan following.

Elaine Cunningham would be my second favorite Realms author. If you stick with these two you'll do fine. The rest do without.

Cheers,

Son of Thunder

 

[Razamir]

Curse of the Azure Bonds was good (if you can find it) but the rest of that series bites.

I personaly love the Salvatore books. They kinda remind me of the old school pulp hero books like Conan, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, John Carter of Mars and Elric. Lots of high adventure and a main character that kicks butt. Bad guys with master plans who always walk around rubbing their hands together. Yes, it can be cheesy at times but most of the Drizzt stuff is pretty good.

I think the Drizzt series stands out. Almost every other book I read is a total Tolkien rip off. All about some farmer who goes off on some great adventure. BLA! Been there, done that. I like to Role play high adventure and thats what I like to read.

 

[Gez]

Given the crap that some writers have made of the FR elves (nazistic melnibonelf bent on destroying the world just because), I hope noone will ever wrote a novel about my favorite race, the gnomes.

Argh ! Too late ! I've heard there's already one ! With gnolls, too. Oh, damn.

I'll never read it.

I've seen someone saying that the Moonshae novels were good. Maybe. They were not intended as FR novels:

From Pages from the Sages

[As told by Jeff Grubb on rec.games.frp.dnd]

      Way back when Dragonlance was fresh and new and Forgotten Realms was just getting its start as a game product in design, there was going to be a "British Dragonlance" product from TSR. TSR UK was to produce the game material, and Doug Niles was to write the novel - the novel that became Darkwalker on Moonshae. They were supposed to work together.

      Bad things happened, from a business side, and TSR UK stopped producing creative work (they let their designers go and reverted to merely selling TSR material from the states). The British DL never happened. Doug had a half-written book and no world to put it in.

      At the same time, Ed and I were working on what would become the original "slate-grey" FR box. We had a world, but novels as yet. The appearance of Darkwalker made it possible to get an FR book out with the boxed set - in fact, to get the book out FIRST.

      We looked at Doug's book and Ed's World. It was a good fit, both being rooted strongly in "traditional fantasy." Compromises were made. Doug took the name of extant island grouping in the Realms. Ed accepted the change of the appearance of the islands (they were an arching archipelgio as opposed to british-shaped chunk). The world was new and we had not published yet.

      It WAS a good fit. Doug finished his tale in the Realms, the Realms itself launched with a strong book, and we established the Realms as a place of many visions - Doug, Bob, myself, Ed, and those who have followed.


[An addendum by Ed Greenwood]


      The 'original' Moonshaes are akin to LeGuin's Earthsea: hundreds of little islands, long-extinct volcanic peaks that rise up out of the sea abruptly, are inhabited by fisherfolk (with a few larger islands that have forests, farms, etc.) nothing much above the rural village culture on most, with self-styled 'lords' on others...and like Earthsea, somewhat like the Celtic-era Hebrides...they occupy the same space as TSR's (Doug Niles's) Moonshaes, arcing from a 'wide spray' at the Sword Coast or eastward extent, curving and narrowing southwest and curving to south...in other words, a large area of 'perilous sea' with awash rocks, reefs, etc. and safe channels that only the locals know.

For novels themselves, a long rant from Greenwood:

For those of you who don't like the way Manshoon is portrayed in the novels, look again. The clues were all there, and most survived the editors: the Manshoon you see in SPELLFIRE and CROWN OF FIRE was acting - playing a role in order to ferret out traitors in the Zhentarim ranks. Fooling them into making moves and exposing themselves, so he could 'make them bring about their own unfortunate deaths.' He's not a buffoon, he's the smartest villain we've yet brought onstage. It grieves me to think you folks missed this. sigh Smites forehead...collapses with moan, bounces up, writes next dozen Realms projects, falls down again...

Just as what goes into a game product is specifically listed and detailed beforehand, what appears in novels is too - and our prose is rewritten. TSR book editors can tell you what battles I have with them...I want to write like Guy Gavriel Kay, but I have to put in 'guys fighting and dying every 8 pages.' If I don't change things, editors do. The current aim of FR novels is to introduce and explain things to NEW readers (don't just bring this umber hulk onstage, describe exactly what it looks like; these may be non-gamers who've never seen a Monster Manual), so this leads to a lot of 'look what I'm doing! I'm plotting the ovethrow of the free world! And here, so I don't forget it for myself, is the dastardly plan I've worked on for twenty years' sort of writing. I could go on...but that's unfair to everyone involved; I'm sure both the editors and readers have their own legitimate beefs. For the record, over a third of Spellfire was cut from my original, and all the dialogue rewritten; readers of a first printing can find the "corpse" of a character falling between rocks, only to spring up again, fit as a fiddle, and fight on (an editor combined two characters, removing one throughout the novel), and also find references to scenes now gone from the narrative, etc. The extra dracolich battle at the end was added in, etc. (my take: They're fighting dracoliches AGAIN? Why?). ALL of Manshoon's meetings and plottings scenes were dumped as 'static, not advancing the action' (note, not 'plot,' 'action').

What Manshoon was doing at the time of these novels was 'tempering' the quality of the sudden boatloads of enthusiastically evil but not very competent mages who'd joined the Zhentarim (and who undoubtedly included Thayan and other spies in their ranks). He had grunts aplenty - he needed capable, ruthless underlings, so that he could remove himself from the day-to-day running of the Zhents.

The 'endless clones' things was my frustrated response to the TSR 'good must win' Code of the day (yes, the Zhents were made into bumbling Keystone Kop pushovers), in which one editor said that Manshoon must be killed, or no victory has been won, and another editor saying 'But he has to survive to face them again and again - too good a villain to waste!'

As a game designer, I went for the solution that gives the most play possibilities: a Manshoon who can pop up again and again, to menace anew. I was frustrated beyond description when this started to get used in a farcial way (for movie buffs, consider the 'strangling admirals' throughout THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, meant to demonstrate Vader's ruthlessness, but which always cause audience amusement by the third death scene; that's how humans react to horrible things thrown at them too often).

Please, all of you, be aware that quite often what goes into a product isn't up to the whim of the gal or guy whose name is on the cover; if I leave something out, someone else will put it in, and only the recent administration has let me see typeset galleys before something goes into print...I refuse to accept [the] contention that I bear the responsibility when my name's on it, if I don't see what text has been added, deleted, or altered before I buy it at my local game store (yes, that's what happened with [City of Raven's Bluff], and it used to be the rule with everything).

I am exasperated with what's happened to Manshoon, but I'd thought that enough hints were still there that you could see this man was playing a double game (a la the ruler in Donaldson's Mirror of Her Dreams/A Man Rides Through/Mordant's Need novels). Moreover, in Spellfire's early scenes, Manshoon is exasperated, too: for the first time in years he did something he knew was a mistake (trusted an underling), and it's blowing up in his face.

I accept that it doesn't look that way. Gods, if I had the change to revise and restore those two novels! (And others.) But that's the way the world is. For example, I'm doing two novels for TOR, and my editor is an ex-TSR editor. I tried, in the first one, to get away from the 'fast, light action, guys fighting all the time' style TSR asked me to adopt (oh, yes; in university I used to write pastiches of Wodehouse and Dunsany that more than once fooled readers into thinking they were reading the real thing), only to be told to drop it and get back to 'what the readers wanted.' Writing for TSR is work for hire. From the beginning, text has been changed in-house; that's why I never like to see posters on the list saying "X must have been thinking thus, because in YYY he writes..." or "Y's characters are always so ZZZ; he must be a XXX." It's not fair, and it's rarely even close to accurate.

For me, personally, the most infuriating thing about the published Realms is to be told I don't understand this or that character, or betrayed them wrongly, because someone else handled them differently elsewhere. It was originally agreed that I'd do a novel a year to bring all the major characters of the Realms out for everyone to see what they were like - whereupon folks could then take them from there. Things didn't work out that way, but I'll be forever grateful to people like Elaine (who got things exactly right with Elaith and others!) and Bob (who checked with me before using Alustriel and others, to make sure he was showing them in the right light and manner).

I like quoting, today. It's quick and simple.

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

they drizzt books are execellent, i've read damn near everything salvatore has published, the spearwielder trilology was killer.

aside from that since you don't like the guy, you can 't go wrong with azure bonds, which leads to masquerade, and them the dead gods.

The avatar trilogoy along with prince of lies and cruible are an excellent choice, the ring of winter is a prequel from what i understand, any one read it? The first book in the shadow of the avatar was cool, haven't read the others yet though.

for stand alone books the glass prision, the city of ravens and temple hill are all excellent.

the cormyr saga was incredable, a definate must read. After that you play into the dragon's lair with you're gaming group.

Elminster making of a mage was real good.

The archwizards return has been top notch this series is still only on book two but i'd say it one of the best series in the realms so far.

right now i'd say the #1 series on my list is probaly councelers and kings, halruaa is a very unique and exotic area of the realms. It is also quite isolated from the rest of the world, making this anexellent jump on series for readers that don't know much about the realms.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Well when I read the Moonshea trilogy back when it was released I thought it was a cool series, but who knows what I'd think of it today. Spellfire was possibly the worst book I ever read, Ed Greenwood is a horrible author! I read the first book of the Avatar's trilogy and had no desire to read anymore of the book due to extreme boredom. The Crystal Shard was pretty cool, as was the book about Drizzt growing up in the underdark. But I never read anymore of his stuff and have no desire to read anymore FR novels and I'm so tired of the setting I can't take anymore. I'm looking for the Gord the Rogue novels on E-Bay, those look cool.

 

[Rogue]

Bah-Humbug...

You bunch of bandwagoning oafs. Threads like this create bias, and bias create unneeded opinions that a new reader will take to heart. When he does, he passes the story on to his other book reading buddies, who do the same thing as he and dun buy the books. Now TSR and D&D in general has lost profits. And we all know that a loss in profits is not a good thing. Ahem.

R. A. Salvatore isn't half as bad as he is cracked up to be. I rather think the man can write, if you're into action and a close take on introspection. Not only that, but he gives a good description of battles, which any DM could learn from. His lands are laid out nicely for DM's to soak up, giving them more ideas/pictures for the continent of Faerun. Ed Greenwood's writing is more traditional, yet it isn't bad. And for the correction, Troy Denning was the author of The Avatar Trilogy, not the bogus named mentioned in a post previous. He was under the alias Richard Awlson. To see how much an author can improve over the years, read The Avatar Trilogy, then Return of the Archwizards. The former was good, and the latter excellent, if not for the information on the Shades.

I much prefer that authors write within the rules, but that's me. Screw your opinion. it adds a bit of realism to the wonderful pen and paper games we all adore so much.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Salvatore Drizzt books were pretty good... unless your biased against Drows of course... some of the last books were getting to be silly thou...

Otherwise the rest FR books were boring and simple books with no flair.

 

[rounser]

I've seen someone saying that the Moonshae novels were good. Maybe.

They were good enough to launch FR - I recently read in a column comparing Dragonlance and FR that the Darkwalker trilogy's success on the bestseller lists helped give FR the initial shove it needed.

Doug Niles was aiming for a Le Morte d'Arthur style setting and story, and he largely succeeded in creating that epic yet dark, tragic mood. What little hope there is gets destroyed by the continual advances of his villains and the emotional struggles of his protagonists with betrayal, a fading goddess, one-sided warfare and a dying land. It's not your average FR series, because it seems to have been published before the "evil mustn't win" rule got enforced.

They were not intended as FR novels

You're right in that the Moonshaes are almost a setting unto themselves - but I think that's a bonus, one of the reasons they're my favourite part of Faerun.

The official Avalon-style isles that are there in place of the original Earthsea-style isles are, IMO, just plain better in that they offer a wealth of conflict, politics and flavour. The rival kingdoms of the Ffolk and the Northmen, the emphasis on druids instead of wizards, the land itself being a deity tied to the fortunes of the Moonwells, and the overall celtic feel of the place make Nile's Moonshaes special.

That's a lot more useful than just some isles with fishermen on them seperated by reefs. I know FR fans are used to revering Greenwood's works, but in this case I think we got something better. (Aaron Allston's Korinn Archipelago from N4 Treasure Hunt is also attached to the top of the official Moonshaes, and that's a fine little setting as well.)