Is this "Fair" - Part III

[spectre72]

A continuation of the Is it "Fair" polls

As part of treasure given to a 1st level party there is a map to a location that is noted as being filled with great treasures. The location could be Rappan Athuk, the Tomb of Horrors, ...etc. The party decides to go and explore the location without researching it and is greeted with a TPK inside the front door.

Is this "Fair"

 

[Gold Roger]

Yes, but

The "but" being that there could have some pointers that they might be out of their league been placed. For example: As the PC's travel to the location they meet a hardy old adventurer at a bar. The old man asks them where they are headed for. When they tell him he:

1)sadly shakes his head turns his back on them

2)tries to disdencourage them and tells how he lost most of his companions there

3)Laughs at them and mooks them, telling them how they are way out of their league

4)Goes all flashback/shellshock

As they travel near you could also have them hear stories how another adventurer group (one they know to be more powerfull) dissapeared there/disbanded because they lost so many there.

But even if the DM doesn't do something like that, it's still fair enough. You don't just enter some hole in the ground without any research at all.

 

[BlackMoria]

Absolutely.....

Only clueless adventurers will undertake a adventure without first doing a little research. In the case of Rappan Athuk, there is a entire section about information that is available to adventurers about the location. So all the party has to do is at least 'try' to find out something by making inquires and they would get some basic information to make decisions and plans on.

The lesson here , kiddies, is do your homework.

 

[Barak]

Yes, but

The "but" being that there could have some pointers that they might be out of their league been placed.

But there was! Any 1st level party that thinks they can take on a location with "great treasure" without even a tad of research ignored a pretty huge pointer.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Mostly fair.

You would think the PCs would hear about it, though, while buying climbing and carrying gear. And, of course, they could have asked around, though I suspect they were afraid that would cause word to get to a rival adventuring party.

 

[Gold Roger]

But there was! Any 1st level party that thinks they can take on a location with "great treasure" without even a tad of research ignored a pretty huge pointer.

That's why I'd still consider it fair if the DM didn't put any further pointers in. But new players might not know that a 1st level char can't hope to expect "great treasure".

 

[drothgery]

Other.

It's fair if they've found info on the way there that makes it pretty clear this is over their heads (though I'd argue that the ToH and many other classic D&D/AD&D1 adventures aren't really fair in general, at least based on what I know of them; I started gaming late in the 2e era, and rarely played through packaged adventures until recently).

It's not fair if the DM dangles a bright shiny mound of treasure at the PCs, and gives no other hints that its in a dungeon that's well beyond them.

This also has a lot to do with how 1st level characters are percieved in your campaign. If they're competent adults, and most people are 1st level (the default D&D assumption, though one that I don't think jives with D&D mechanics), then it's a lot more rational than in the demographics I normally propose (competent adults are 3rd-5th level; 1st level characters have just enough experience to be trusted without adult supervision, and are typically teenagers or the non-human equivalent thereof) for a first level character to think they're up to heading out after "great treasure".

 

[drothgery]

That's why I'd still consider it fair if the DM didn't put any further pointers in. But new players might not know that a 1st level char can't hope to expect "great treasure".

Great treasure might well be only relatively great treasure; a +2 sword is great treasure (far beyond what he'd normally expect to find) to a 1st level fighter.

 

[T. Foster]

I agree with pretty much everyone else. For experienced players running new 1st level characters it's totally fair -- they should know to do research before following a map to otherwise undefined "great treasures." For newbie players, though, I'd think the DM should probably give some more hints that this place is dangerous and they might be in over their heads by going there, even if the players don't think to proacively "do research." The DM might also want to drop some hints once they actually get to the dungeon that it's beyond their capabilities. But if they don't take the hint(s), a TPK 20' inside the front door is entirely fair

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Course it's fair.