Is this legal?

[Altalazar]

I think you might be ignoring the d20 STL. To use it, you give up some ground in regard to what you might be able to normally do. Character generation and advancement are two areas that are off limits for those using the d20 STL.

Probably irrelevant. Even if there were NO OGL, such an experience point level calculator would likely be ok. Even if you could somehow claim a contractual agreement not to use certain parts of it on the basis of the OGL (which seems rather unlikely to hold up in court) it may end up pre-empted by copyright law anyway, which is Federal and which trumps anything that goes within the copyright universe.

 

[Mark CMG]

Probably irrelevant. Even if there were NO OGL, such an experience point level calculator would likely be ok. Even if you could somehow claim a contractual agreement not to use certain parts of it on the basis of the OGL (which seems rather unlikely to hold up in court) it may end up pre-empted by copyright law anyway, which is Federal and which trumps anything that goes within the copyright universe.

This pertains to the d20 STL not the OGL, except in that the d20 STL requires, first, that you are working under the OGL (in this case, though it is possible to have a separate arrangement that allows you to use the d20 logo without the OGL or d20 STL). You are mistaken to believe that you cannot give up rights by contract to gain other rights.

(If you're not familiar with the OGL and d20 STL, please refrain from stepping in.)

Tell you what, anyone who wishes to comment further and be taken seriously, please go first to the legal page on that website and tell me what is the first huge legal red flag that you see. Then we'll discuss this further . . .

 

[JimAde]

Tell you what, anyone who wishes to comment further and be taken seriously, please go first to the legal page on that website and tell me what is the first huge legal red flag that you see. Then we'll discuss this further . . .

I'll bite. What is it? I don't necessarily want to be taken seriously (why start now?) but I'm curious what you mean.

And just to clarify, by "that website" you mean the one in Sage's sig, right?

 

[Altalazar]

This pertains to the d20 STL not the OGL, except in that the d20 STL requires, first, that you are working under the OGL (in this case, though it is possible to have a separate arrangement that allows you to use the d20 logo without the OGL or d20 STL). You are mistaken to believe that you cannot give up rights by contract to gain other rights.

(If you're not familiar with the OGL and d20 STL, please refrain from stepping in.)

Tell you what, anyone who wishes to comment further and be taken seriously, please go first to the legal page on that website and tell me what is the first huge legal red flag that you see. Then we'll discuss this further . . .

At it pertains an experience point level calculator, I think you're wrong, though it would likely be an interesting teaching case in Federal court if it ever came to that to give instruction just on what the limits of copyright are, especially when there is an open license involved.

However, if the owner of that web page wants to be clever, he can just make the experience point calculator operate on 'units' instead of 'experience points' and instead of doing 1000 per level, do one per level, such that second level is at '1' unit, third level is at '3' units, and so on, and he'd get exactly the same thing functionally for anyone who uses it, and there'd be absolutely nothing wizards could do about it, because then for them to even file a claim would almost be frivolous, perhaps even a rule 11 violation resulting in sanctions against Wizards. Perhaps that would be an instructive case to watch as well.

Another option would be to make it open ended, with the user of the web page entering the 'units' and then the web page calculating using only the formula, so you plug in 'level 3' and '1000' and it spits out '3000' as the answer. (As opposed to plugging in 'level 3' and '100' where you'd get '300' as the answer, etc.)

In either of those cases, you would not be using anything of wizards on the web page but half of the underlying mathematical formula, and guess what? There's no way you can stretch copyright or contract law to prevent someone from using half of a trivial mathematical formula.

 

[Mark CMG]

(snip)

Sorry. I'm afraid there are a lot of things of which you are in error. If you glance over the OGL and d20 STL you'll see what I mean. No offense but I can't debate things with you unless you first have that understanding because my points obviously won't make sense to you.

I'm still waiting for someone to point up the big red flag on the legal page of that site. As to other legal issues with it, the front page is a minefiled of problems.

 

[Altalazar]

Sorry. I'm afraid there are a lot of things of which you are in error. If you glance over the OGL and d20 STL you'll see what I mean. No offense but I can't debate things with you unless you first have that understanding because my points obviously won't make sense to you.

I'm still waiting for someone to point up the big red flag on the legal page of that site. As to other legal issues with it, the front page is a minefiled of problems.

Are you a copyright lawyer? If so, I'd be fascinated to discuss this with you further. A little bit of contract law would help, as well.

In any case, I'm quite curious to hear what you specifically think was in error, and why, about my last post, which you snipped out completely.

 

[Mark CMG]

Are you a copyright lawyer? If so, I'd be fascinated to discuss this with you further. A little bit of contract law would help, as well.

In any case, I'm quite curious to hear what you specifically think was in error, and why, about my last post, which you snipped out completely.

I'm a publisher of OGC and have the responsibility of knowing how the OGL and d20 STL function. I do this for a living.

The first thing to learn is not to try to "out clever" the licenses. It isn't worth the effort. They really are simple if you take the time to read and understand them. Have you read them yet? If so, please point out what on that site's legal page is a huge glaring violation of the OGL. If not, please refrain from posting as it isn't helping that site with it's legal situation which is what was requested by the original poster.

 

[hexgrid]

Are you a copyright lawyer? If so, I'd be fascinated to discuss this with you further. A little bit of contract law would help, as well.

In any case, I'm quite curious to hear what you specifically think was in error, and why, about my last post, which you snipped out completely.

Altalazar, you're talking about general copyright law, but the issue here is meeting the requirements of a specific license. (or two, actually- the OGL and d20.)

 

[dnabre]

No legal problem at all.

You can't copyright the numbers in a table (the specific expression of a table and it's layout yes, but not the number or the formula it's based upon). The only conceivable problem would be trademark issues, but the terms 'level' and 'experience' are so widely used for such things, there's no case there.

Just to clarify my statement, it was a general statement about your rights concerning the material as related to copyright and trademark law, and doesn't factor in any contractual constraints you may have agreed to.

 

[Altalazar]

I'm a publisher of OGC and have the responsibility of knowing how the OGL and d20 STL function. I do this for a living.

The first thing to learn is not to try to "out clever" the licenses. It isn't worth the effort. They really are simple if you take the time to read and understand them. Have you read them yet? If so, please point out what on that site's legal page is a huge claring violation of the OGL. If not, please refrain from posting as it isn't helping that site with it's legal situation which is what was requested by the original poster.

The original poster asked a question about adding a specific feature to his web page, involving experience points. What you are talking about adds no clarity to that issue.

You still did not indicate what you think the errors are with what I posted. Essentially, what you've said is that you know you're right and I'm wrong and just trust you, you do it for a living. If you are so knowledgeable on the subject, please enlighten the rest of us, and point by legal point. So far, you've not convinced me you know what you are talking about. If you could do that, then perhaps I would be convinced and I could take you seriously and perhaps we could all learn something. So far, I've not seen anything very convincing. Looking at the OGL and what is in it, however, I see some pretty big ambiguities when it comes to experience points and the OGL, and that I find fascinating from a legal perspective.