Is this offensive?

[dragonlordofpoondari]

Hell, I'll get in the van ...

This is an interesting and daring thread that also happens to be well handled by the local smarty-pantses.

At the risk of sounding obsequious, I find myself in complete agreement with the ENWorld staffers/owner. They articulated my feelings on the matter perfectly.

I do so enjoy the company of intelligent people ...

 

[krissbeth]

I was just talking about pain tolerance...not survival

Well, epidurals haven't been around for THAT long (about the past 65 years).

 

[Oryan77]

I just think it's funny how almost everyone points out how a girl might be offended by having a Str penalty but I think only 1 person in this thread mentioned how the Cha penalty for a guy is offensive.

....and then nobody seems to be offended by male characters taking a penalty to Wis haha

 

[pawsplay]

So, I ask, if D&D set men and women up like races, and gave women -2Str/+1Cha/+1Wis (to represent lower physical strength and higher linguistic/social intelligence) or, conversely, gave women no modifiers but men +2Str/-1Cha/-1 Wis, would this personally offend you?

Not in any personal way. I would simply be saddened by the author's ignorance. The only area where a men outperform women in Str by 2 points would be carrying capacity and possibly throwing damage. Otherwise, the difference would be at most a single point, at the level of detail D&D uses.

Furthermore, -1 Cha does not seem to be me to accurately describe a man's relative ability to use the Intimidation skill, and certainly not the ability to dominate a boardroom. -1 Wis might be marginally accurate, although I feel a lot of research in that area has been tainted by sexist assumptions.

If I were going to stat male and female humans differently, I would say:

Men:
Treat Str as 2 points higher for lighting/carrying capacity
+1 to hit with thrown weapons
+1 to grapple and trip
+1 to Intimidate
+1 to save vs. poison

Women:
+1 to Listen and Sense Motive
+1 to Escape Artist and Tumble
+1 to Fortitude saves versus nonlethal damage
+1 to save vs. disease

 

[Aus_Snow]

No, I wouldn't be offended by that.

But nor would I use that house rule.

So many of the differences, ability score-wise - and/or skill-wise - would be a direct result of cultural traditions and norms (assuming there are going to be differences at all, in a given game world's specific rules.) And these stretch back through possibly thousands of years or more, etching 'somewhat hardwired' tendencies into the physiological and neurological states of generation after generation.

It could be rather difficult to separate out that kind of thing from any supposed biological limits according to sex, I suspect. Well, accurately at least.

 

[Tewligan]

I can think of any number of women in Victorian literature who'd have to disagree with you there. Or any woman who's ever been to a club. Or been on a third date.

Are you starting to see where this is going?

Stop trying to get in Rel's pants.

At the risk of sounding obsequious, I find myself in complete agreement with the ENWorld staffers/owner. They articulated my feelings on the matter perfectly.

You too.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I don't find it offensive (I'm not that easily offended) but I can certainly see how many people would. I'm also not certain as to how accurate those suggested adjustments would be either.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Dire Bare]

" it is probable that women are genuinely smarter than men with regard to languages and probably social intelligence in general."

That evidence for being more socially intelligent would be the inability to vote in the U.S. until the 20th century? The inability to get an equal wage for equal work? How about the fact that 90% of the worlds leaders have not been women for the past couple thousand years? For every noteable woman in history or fiction, there are dozens if not hundreds of men.

Women have gotten the short end of the stick for such a long time I can't fathom any logic for a charisma bonus or a wisdom bonus. I'd say they are equal with the deck stacked against them.

Sooooo, what exactly are you saying here? That because women have gotten the historical shaft that it's realistic to see them as less "charismatic" and/or less "wise"?? I soooo hope I'm misreading what you are trying to say . . . . 'cause if that is what you are trying to say, all I can say in response is a sad, "Wow".

 

[dragonlordofpoondari]

You too.

But Rel's pants are magically delicious, conferring a +1 to his Cha.

 

[Timeboxer]

Beyond that, someone who wants to create stat-based gender differences can assign various character flaws to characters as they see fit.

Female

You are unathletic and your butt is enormous.

Effect: You take a -2 penalty to Strength.