Is this too hard a fight? 2 barlgura vs 4 level 4 PCs

[Ancalagon]

Hello

So the party may trip a magical trap in a basement that will summon fiends. I was thinking of 2 barlgura... but I'm concerned. I can't just have one because the party will focus fire it to smithereens, and I want this to be a hard fight.

However, they have a lot of punch (literally) and two may result in too much damage.

I don't have that much experience with running 5e combat so I was hoping for some insight.

The party: 27 points, no feats. 1 elven barbarian, 1 half elf paladin, 1 human warlock, 1 slug man cleric of knowledge.

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[iserith]

By the numbers, one barlgura is going to be a Hard fight. Two will be Deadly. According to the DMG, the expectation should be:

"A Hard encounter could go badly for adventurers. Weaker characters might get taken out of the fight, and there's a slim chance that one or more characters might die."

"A Deadly encounter could be lethal for one or more player characters. Survival often requires good tactics and quick thinking, and the party risks defeat."

If you are not willing to risk character death in this situation, I recommend having the demons break off the attack when they reach 50% of their hit points, then run amok in the town (or whatever). Put something else at risk besides the PCs' hit points, especially something the characters care about. Alternatively, when they are summoned, have just the one attack the PCs and the other bust out of the basement to run amok. Either of these solutions will put a limit on the incoming damage to the PCs while still maintaining a compelling set of stakes.

 

[Ancalagon]

Thank you, the running amok is an interesting option that I will definitely keep in mind.

I already had done the CR evaluation, I was hoping if someone could comment on if this fight would actually be deadly. I will note that the barlgura won't use their (limited) spells, only brawn.

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[iserith]

Thank you, the running amok is an interesting option that I will definitely keep in mind.

I already had done the CR evaluation, I was hoping if someone could comment on if this fight would actually be deadly. I will note that the barlgura won't use their (limited) spells, only brawn.

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It's hard to say. It really depends on the tactics your players employ. Certainly the cleric has options to mitigate the damage output of the demons if he or she has prepared and casts the appropriate spells. The paladin should be able to smite as well for extra damage against demons. The barbarian should be able to cut their damage output of the demons in half (for a time) if he or she manages to draw the attacks.

I know you said they aren't going to use their spells, but another thing you can do is have one of the barlgura use phantasmal force and then dodge so as to avoid getting hit and losing concentration. That will drop the incoming damage to the PCs, but produce some kind of hindering effect that will make it an interesting challenge. It also makes demons something more than a bag of hit points and some slam attacks.

As always, I recommend telegraphing this threat to the players in advance of them running afoul of it.

 

[Ed Laprade]

It may or may not be too hard of a fight, but its definitely too hard to pronounce!

 

[Ancalagon]

Well...

When the characters heard that the Blood Merchant had a monopoly on blood, they decided "hey, why mess with his business, we'll talk this out instead of barging in" which is *NOT* what I expected my players to do... so no fiend trap triggered!

... but then the barbarian player sent me a note saying he was going to go check it out at night when the party was asleep. So the Barlgura may yet feast! (he's the toughest character but....)

 

[freeWeemsy]

If the party is able to surprise the Barlgura I'd say it should be manageable. On the other hand if the party is surprised you should basically count on one of them dying.

If the party is able to engage from a distance, it should be manageable, if they start in melee range once again it is going to be really tough sledding.

At the end of the day how the fight goes completely depends on the arena they are fighting in.

 

[aco175]

Are the PCs going to be at max power, or have they gone through a few encounters already today? Are they smart enough to run away if overmatched, or do they expect the DM to give them balanced encounters all the time? If any of these are yes, you should be good to go.

 

[Ancalagon]

Ha! One PC decided to sneak into the compound *alone *... this may end very poorly...

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[Croesus]

Hello

So the party may trip a magical trap in a basement that will summon fiends. I was thinking of 2 barlgura... but I'm concerned. I can't just have one because the party will focus fire it to smithereens, and I want this to be a hard fight.

However, they have a lot of punch (literally) and two may result in too much damage.

I don't have that much experience with running 5e combat so I was hoping for some insight.

The party: 27 points, no feats. 1 elven barbarian, 1 half elf paladin, 1 human warlock, 1 slug man cleric of knowledge.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using EN World mobile app

I realize the scenario appears to be playing out differently (just one or two PCs involved), but thought you would find my account helpful.

A few months back, a party of 5 PCs, levels 7-8) were exploring. The rogue went ahead and was surprised by two invisible barlguras. They hit four times out of six, including one crit. The rogue had only a few hit points and ran back to the rest of the party. The barlguras pursued and were easily wiped out by the remaining PCs.

What this tells me:
1) Swinginess matters. If you throw 2 barlguras at the party and roll one crit (or more) early on, the battle can go south in a hurry. You have little margin for error. It didn't help that the rogue really blew her perception roll, allowing the surprise round. Had the rogue dropped at that point, she would have been dead long before the rest of the party could get to her.

2) Barlguras don't actually do huge amounts of damage (2d6+4, 1d10+4, 1d10+4), but have three attacks at +7. What are the ACs of the PCs? If the barlguras hit just three times out of six, average damage is 30 points. Can the party take that?

3) Barlguras have relatively low hit points (68), though that means each still has more hit points than any of the party members. Can the PCs really do enough damage to take down one barlgura in a couple rounds?

4) Barlguras are resistant to cold, fire and lightning. Based on the party makeup, it doesn't appear that will matter much, and since they don't have resistance to non-magical weapons, all PCs should be able to affect them.

Hope this helps.