Is Time Travel (going backwards) Possible?

[KarinsDad]

Do you really, honestly not see the problem here?

Yes I do. You and I cannot appear to have a rational discussion on this (Jeezooos holy mofo???) because you seem to be nitpicking anything I write. I suspect that I am hitting one of your buttons, similar to if I talked to someone about their religion. For some people, science is religion. I do not know about you, but it appears that way since you have not once discussed science here, but merely leveled accustations at me of attacking scientists. That is the main thing that you have focused on. You appear to be mostly ignoring anything else I write and I haven't seen anything to indicate that you have actually researched those areas that I have discussed yourself. Science is religion for me, but one that I try to be objective about and not just believe everything I read about it.

And yes, I know several scientists in several different fields. The one I talk to the most has a PhD from MIT in chemistry. My wife's cousin has a PhD in molecular genetics and microbiology from Duke. All of the ones I know are good hard working people. I even had an Email correspondence with a physicist for over a year that I did not know at all. Great guy who helped me a lot by pointing me to papers that I never would have ever read. He didn't need to do that, but he did. I wouldn't actually mind starting a correspondence with Umbran because he is always level headed here. And, it's extremely likely that my daughter will become a (probably PhD) scientist. Within a bit over a decade, I will most likely have a scientist in the family who will have scientist colleagues in at least her field (whose brains I might one day get to pick ).

I actually think that the vast majority of branches of science are very very well researched (not well funded, but well researched) and I wasn't really discussing those. I was discussing the more theoretical areas (like Kip Thorne and his silly time machine proposal which started this discussion). I apologize that by using the term scientist, I misled you to infer that I was talking about all scientific branches. I was trying to be more specific with my examples.

Thousands of years ago (even without Pythagoras), anyone with a brain could climb a tower or a mountain and tell that the world was curved by looking out over the ocean. Many learned people (and not just in Greece) knew this at the time (some seafarers knew that the world was at least curved by seeing just the masts of other ships at a distance). But, the prevailing theory was that the Earth was flat nearly everywhere around the world.

Dark Matter theories (and some other theoretical aspects of science, possibly like string theory) are the Flat Earth theories of our day and age. The signs are there, but some people refuse to see them. You can disagree with that, but it's probably just a matter of time before they fall by the wayside. I base this on my biased unlearned but heavily read opinion. One just needs to do a lot of reading and read between the lines. And, my opinion doesn't mean squat. But, I'm a patient person and can wait to see how it all shakes out.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[jonesy]

Thousands of years ago (even without Pythagoras), anyone with a brain could climb a tower or a mountain and tell that the world was curved by looking out over the ocean. Many learned people (and not just in Greece) knew this at the time (some seafarers knew that the world was at least curved by seeing just the masts of other ships at a distance). But, the prevailing theory was that the Earth was flat nearly everywhere around the world.

That is called the Myth of the Flat Earth, and is simply not true. Are these scientist friends of yours members of the Flat Earth Society by any chance?

 

[Nellisir]

Why only on an intergalactic scale?

Because gravity is stronger than dark energy on a local (galactic) scale, just as other forces are stronger than gravity at different scales.

We think of gravity as this mighty force that holds the sun and the planets together, but you overcome it every time you pick something up off the floor. If other forces weren't stronger than gravity, we'd just be random atoms sprinkled over the planet, unable to come together. We can overcome gravity with simple chemical rockets. Water molecules overcome gravity by getting hot and converting to steam.

On small scales, the electromagnetic force is much more powerful than gravity and at atomic scales, the strong force is much more powerful than electromagnetism. (and there's also the weak force, which also works at an atomic level).

So, dark energy is still present in galaxies, just like gravity is present in molecules, but gravity is stronger than dark energy at the galactic scale and keeps things (scientifical terms!) bound together.

 

[Morrus]

I'm suffering from what can only be described as an irony overload. But the old science=religion canard (which I could see was coming three pages back, but hoped wasn't) pretty much concludes this debate for me.

 

[Umbran]

Yes I do. You and I cannot appear to have a rational discussion on this (Jeezooos holy mofo???) because you seem to be nitpicking anything I write.

I don't think he's nitpicking what you write. To me, it looks like he's questioning the grounds upon which you are criticizing the competence and work ethics of those who have made their life's work of something that's pretty darned difficult to do.

Thousands of years ago (even without Pythagoras), anyone with a brain could climb a tower or a mountain and tell that the world was curved by looking out over the ocean. Many learned people (and not just in Greece) knew this at the time (some seafarers knew that the world was at least curved by seeing just the masts of other ships at a distance). But, the prevailing theory was that the Earth was flat nearly everywhere around the world.

Here's the thing - that's not true. Yes, in grade school, they may have taught you that the learned people of Columbus' day thought the Earth was flat. But that was incorrect. And, these days, we know it is incorrect.

What you've just proven is that sometimes laymen didn't/don't know a whole lot about what scientists think. Which, as Morrus points out, is kind of ironic.

 

[Nytmare]

For some people, science is religion... Science is religion for me, but one that I try to be objective about and not just believe everything I read about it.

Science adjusts its beliefs based on what is observed.

Religions deny observation so that belief can be preserved.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I don't think he's nitpicking what you write. To me, it looks like he's questioning the grounds upon which you are criticizing the competence and work ethics of those who have made their life's work of something that's pretty darned difficult to do.



Here's the thing - that's not true. Yes, in grade school, they may have taught you that the learned people of Columbus' day thought the Earth was flat. But that was incorrect. And, these days, we know it is incorrect.

What you've just proven is that sometimes laymen didn't/don't know a whole lot about what scientists think. Which, as Morrus points out, is kind of ironic.

This is far from the first time I hqve learned that poor Mrs cullen lied to me, it is the first i have heard about columbus not seting out to prove that the eqrth is not flat... so p,ease tell me some moreabout this, and where can I find out more?

 

[Nellisir]

This is far from the first time I hqve learned that poor Mrs cullen lied to me, it is the first i have heard about columbus not seting out to prove that the eqrth is not flat... so p,ease tell me some moreabout this, and where can I find out more?

Um...seriously? Columbus set out to find a route to the China & the East Indies so he could make money. For more information, try Wikipedia.

 

[jonesy]

The issue with Columbus and the false things said was that Washington Irving published a biography of him in 1828 where he made claims about the intents of the voyage and people thought that the biography was accurate when most of it was made up. In reality the journey wasn't about the shape of the world, but its width and the distances to other continents.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Um...seriously? Columbus set out to find a route to the China & the East Indies so he could make money. For more information, try Wikipedia.

Yes, seriusly, I know he was looking for a route for spices... but my understanding (from 3rd grade history) was that most people thoughthe was crazy and going to fall off the edge of the earth... and that he though(correctly) that the earth was round.and.he.would travel around the world to the east and end up in the west...