Isolate and Kill vs. Neuter and Ignore: Which Control tactic do you prefer?

[Prestidigitalis]

4e Controller powers can be used in many different ways, but two of the main combat tactics are:

1. Isolate and Kill: Make it so a creature cannot easily escape or defend itself, using Slow, Immobilize, Daze, knock prone, powers that reduce its defenses, or powers that keep it from shifting, flying, teleporting, etc. Now focus fire and kill it.

2. Neuter and Ignore: Make it so a creature can't do much damage to the party, using Stun, Weaken, or powers that penalize its attack or damage. Ignore it until you have finished with its allies, then focus fire and kill it.

Which of these two tactics do you prefer? When do you switch to the other tactic? Do you feel that either tactic is better supported than the other?

Of course, it's possible to muddle these tactics, by neutering a creature as in #2, but then immediately focusing fire on it. I believe this is usually a mistake, but maybe you disagree.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I did not vOte yet,,but my groupthat I dm has this fight all the time

Wizard stuns(se) a monster and applies a-8 to the save... Then the rouge drops an encounter crit and kills it


Or the wizad slow and push 2targets so it will take more then 3 move actions away...then the fighter charges those monsters...

The wiz feels this waste his turn

 

[Incenjucar]

I play an invoker, so I prefer to neuter and kill. My favorite action point combo is Tide of the First Storm+Searing Orb backed up by Demand Justice to keep the save ends blind up. The result is a blinded, dazed, slowed target, while a bunch of PCs get to move into position for the kill. I use this on the heavy hitters to turn them into pin cushions, so that the PCs can slaughter them before they can actually land one of their attacks.

 

[Dice4Hire]

My group is not really into controllers at all, but if I were to play one, I would go for neutering and destroying, which fits out playstyle better

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Dice4Hire and Incenjucar: You actually prefer to focus fire and quickly kill the creature that you have already neutered, rather than leaving it to flail helplessly while you take on more dangerous foes who are at full strength?

 

[Incenjucar]

Dice4Hire and Incenjucar: You actually prefer to focus fire and quickly kill the creature that you have already neutered, rather than leaving it to flail helplessly while you take on more dangerous foes who are at full strength?

Yes.

Because if I've used a daily AND an encounter AND am ready to burn a utility on them it's because they're elites or worse.

 

[BobTheNob]

Neuter and Ignore. Our parties warlord is a real hyper-strategist. Most fights he uses all his "Warlordy" abilities to pumps the wizards initiative through the roof right at the start, then the wizard "insta-novas", spends an action point to Neuter as much as possible, then the party focus's on what was left over.

We are epic now and this tactic has proven terrifyingly effective. Most fights, the party is getting hit with alot less attacks per round.

Im with Presti on this. I just dont see the point in killing the creature that is doing nothing and leaving the one who is still active unmolested. Not only in theory, I watch my players put this principle into practice week after week, and boy it works.

(p.s. Wasnt so much the case earlier in the game, but late paragon to epic : Everyone plays there part, the tank takes the hits, the strikers do the damage and the leaders heal and aid. But boy, a good controller just rules the battlefields. Well, thats my experience)

 

[keterys]

I strongly prefer "Isolate and Kill" as a concept, and find that "Neuter and Ignore" actively adds to the boredom of the fight.

Not that I haven't done it, mind you. But it's far too easily overdone. I don't like stun at all, in anyone's hands, pretty much.

 

[Incenjucar]

Elites can generally survive a couple of rounds, so neutering them largely serves to drop their effectiveness down to standard monster levels. This may vary on how nova-capable your group is.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Dice4Hire and Incenjucar: You actually prefer to focus fire and quickly kill the creature that you have already neutered, rather than leaving it to flail helplessly while you take on more dangerous foes who are at full strength?

Umm, why would you neuter the less dangerous creatures?

Most encounters have a lynchpin. Take it out and the rest of the fight is a cakewalk.