ISRP Basic How-To Seminar

[WizO_Trelian]

*ahem* Okay, there are a couple of things in this post that I want to immediately address.

12. When you create your character, IF you use a cs, which i suggest everyone does, since it IS indeed a FREEFORM chatroom, you should at least have some idea of what its powers are. None of this:

assassin tells you ((Ok...so he watched you for much more than 3 rounds, then made a death attack....what's your fort. save?))
You tell assassin ((i have no idea...i mean..err....he's high level, so i think it's....err....high))

If you have a cs, you'll be able to answer directly.

A character sheet with some idea of your character's powers is indeed a good idea. People will avoid play if your char keeps getting out of jams by showing powers that it never did before, just because now you need it to have those powers. But it doesn't have to be a DnD character sheet. And there is no reason to tell people they have to know their characters Fortitude Save or Hit Points or Armor Class or any number or set of numbers normally used in DnD mechanics. If you want to play by DnD rules, go on a Dungeon Delve or work out an agreement with other players in PMs or off-line. It should be enough to say "this is what my char tried to do to yours and my char is about low/medium/high/ridiculous level" and let them determine if their char takes the hit.

14. If you don't have a cs and you don't know the rules, stay away from fights. This may sound stupid now.....but fight with someone that does know the rules and all hell breaks loose. It's not your fault and it's not their fault. Freeforming has its benefits and it's all good.....but i won't fight a character COMPLETELY freeform...It can lead to many misunderstandings. Such as a lvl. 17 wizard being defeated by a lvl 7 fighter. The lvl7 fighter might be very good at describing what he does. He can know his weapon (like shen said) as well as he wants....when the wizard casts a powerful spell he's toast. And if the lvl 7 figther doesn't know the rules and is fully freeforming, he might not accept it...

Again, I question this mentality. The default in ISRP is no set mechanics or combat rules. If you yourself only want to play by DnD standards, then it's up to you to PM the other player and determine this before you get so far into combat that you think "all hell breaks loose." Try reading Tharivious's excellent guide to ISRP combat (see the sticky "ISRP Guides" for a link). DnD mechanics have their own distortion of reality. In real life, a lvl7 fighter might defeat a lvl17 wizard by accident and circumstance and general bad luck. DnD makes some allowance by critical success/failure rolls but the point of ISRP is good roleplaying, not whether or not the dice come up with the right number at the right time.

Remember though that saving your character's life doesn't have to involve ignoring hits. Try leaving the combat area with "staggers away, burnt to an almost crisp" or similar. If you're the one who's winning (or think you ought to win) then PM the other player to determine how far they're willing to go. Even a horribly evil villain can roleplay "you are no longer worth my time" if the other player is willing for their char to take injury but not be killed.

Otherwise, some very nicely put and useful advice.

 

[WizO_Trelian]

Another point that comes up in play but I've never seen mentioned. Timing of attacks can determine how successful they are. If you've just started interacting with a char, then don't assume someone is a snert because they don't let their apparently lower level char take your epic level char's attack. They may be tired from three other random attacks that week, or they may be trying to roleplay a key piece of a three-month-long storyline, or they may need to go offline in 10 minutes and not have the 2 hours to run a combat in the clearing. Or they may have decided that you're the snert and just not want to play with you. Don't make assumptions. If you're upset about it, try a PM.

BTW, Trelian on duty is going to be immune to most attacks for the simple reason that I need to have the character stay visible during my shift as WizO. Even if it means just ignoring attacks, though I'll do my best to roleplay an excuse, however lame.

 

[preacher of nothing]

true Trelian, no set mechanics and combat rules are needed or included in ISRP's description. But even so, i personally find it hard to actually do combat with another if they don't know their stuff.
The characters are DnD based. And so, their powers are DnD based. And so, the fights are DnD based....now, this doesn't mean rolling for stuff, or generally doing such stuff like say "Oh, you missed your save"
But it helps a lot when it comes down to it all.
Two martial based characters having a fight is something that can be done FULLY freeform i should think. But having a divine or arcane user fight a martial character is something that the knowledge of SOME rules is required for...

again, this is all my own personal opinion and thusly is subject to subjectivity and just general stupidity
[EDIT: try saying subject to subjectivity really really fast ]

 

[WizO_Trelian]

The characters are DnD based....

Well... no. They don't have to be, even though this is a WotC site. The prevalent style of the characters is supposed to be medieval fantasy such as DnD and that's the easiest way to tell the newcomer what sort of character to play. But I've brought a character from GURPS into play here and I know there's been ones based on Palladium and other systems. GURPS has basic char attributes points but otherwise is a skill-based rather than level-based system run on 3d6. So how would you feel if I told you I don't understand that your wizard is 17th level, instead I need to know at what skill-level he has that particular spell and whether your spell is resisted by IQ or Health? That's having rules, but not the ones you're used to playing. And why it's best to agree before combat on what sort of rules (if any!) that you both want to use.

Stay flexible. Just because someone doesn't play by your particular rules, doesn't mean you can't enjoy playing or fighting with them.

 

[WizO_Gabriel]

I'd just like to state with Trelian that while I am on shift, Gabriel is "conviently" invincible to a certain extent for the simple reason that I need to be able to do my duties as WizO and I can't be doing them if I'm trying to create exciting combat in one of the combat rooms or Gabe's lying bleeding on the ground. Other times things are completely negoitable.

And I'd also like to say I'm very impressed with the amount of mature discussion about the ins and outs of ISRP here.

 

[preacher of nothing]

the list goes on to the disappointment of the public....

23. Marshals........we all know em and we all ha.....love them . WizO's in the ISRP setting and how to interact with them...
For the love of God....just because he/she has a WizO in front of his/her name doesn't mean that you know him/her. Now...WizO's in ISRP sepparate into those in the CRT and those in the Emporium. Whilst in the CRT you can assume they're someone important just because they're behind the counter or using a broom (like Pounamu did a few weeks ago i think). In the emporium however, you don't know them. They may as well be "just another elf" or "just another stinkin human". Don't start nodding to the marshal just because their name states their position.

(Disclaimer: This is said for newbs, those that haven't RP-ed with the WizO's yet or found out about them from other characters).

24. In life, one's path is not always sure. You may go to an Academy of Economical Studies and end up being a teacher of nuclear physics....it's all about factors that can't be put in the equation of life. The only two persons capable of this are God (upon which i won't comment) and Harri Seldon, the man from the Foundation series that Isaac Asimov wrote that had invented Psichohistory, a science meant to determine the future by using mathematics and psichology. *ahem*....translation: Upon creation of a character that you will use in ISRP, make sure that you don't think too much ahead. Sure, you can have a plan as to what that character wants to do....but all in all, average joe is going to be denied the path he/she initially thought of. They might change their minds,they might be forced to change their minds, and so on and so forth.

25. Linked to 24, this is again about your char's story. A very long time ago there was an invasion of Dragons in ISRP...then it was quickly followed by vampires. After this, it was followed by were-creatures and fiends and celestials. Currently there's a great big mix of all of these and more, with let's say the drow reigning supreme as a chosen race.
I'm not going to tell you to avoid these kinds of creatures...but keep in mind that there are many, and there have been many of their kind. If you do choose to create a dragon, vampire, etc, make sure there's something unique to them. If not....heck, you got plenty of choices as races, from mostly anything you can imagine. A long time ago i remember seing a creature similar to a lemure with wings like a dragonfly....the player had even made a drawing of it and sent it my way...it was very very nicely done and the char was very nicely played....and original. I've also seen only one doppelganger character.
I didn't personally like the way the character was played, but the race has much potential. Just make sure you don't create it and then uber it like that character had. An example of ubering your doppelganger: "Take care friend...you don't want to upset a pit fiend"
"Bah....i once changed my figure to look like Mephistopheles and made all the pit fiends in Cania dress in pink"
" .....what?"

^try to avoid things like that...

26. Royalty...
Try to avoid rp-ing royalty. It gets you into a lot of trouble. First of all....rp-ing royalty has nothing to do with the CRT. I can't really see royalty walking in there and ordering some ale. If it's been your childhood dream to imagine you're a princess, ok....go ahead....but be aware:

- Royalty are used to being treated as royalty is treated.
- Royalty have a certain way of thinking/behaving/speaking even
- Royalty have many many enemies. Enemies that are willing to pay assassins...assassins that are willing to kill your character.
- Royalty don't go anywhere without an escort....if they do, that means that they're outcasts, hence no protection...
- People may choose to not interact with your character simply because of their background...

27. You roleplay a neutral character....or at least that's what the alignment says. Hmm...neutral.....let's think about that a bit. Would you hang out with someone that kills the orcs then turns and kills the humans as well? Probably not. And you'll say "Aaah yes, but my character is wise...he'll know that this balance is required and that the neutral character strives only to maintain equilibrium". While this may be true...just how wise is your character? If he's wise enough to be in a tavern in Oerth sipping his tea surrounded by pirates, trolls, vampires, drow, etc....how wise is he really and how would he look at the neutral character?
As a conclusion...neutral characters are very difficult to rp, and as such you should think thrice about it when you take the decision...

28. On the quality of roleplaying: Although many aspects of yourself may be reflected in your character remember...your pirate character wont be as wise as you are. And your lich won't be contemplating the beauty of a single flower. As difficult as it may be, try to put yourself in their shoes and make sure they're rp-ed properly. Too often have i seen "abberrations" being rp-ed like absolute crap just because of this.
You've created a vampire. As diverse as his goals in life will be, he'll be one thing...a bloodthirsty monster. He won't be giving out advice on how to handle personal matters....he'll be dominating the person in the stool next to him...

oh damn....i'm gonna be late for the Scorpions concert now....err....i'll finish this list later on...

 

[WizO_Gabriel]

23. Marshals........we all know em and we all ha.....love them . WizO's in the ISRP setting and how to interact with them...
For the love of God....just because he/she has a WizO in front of his/her name doesn't mean that you know him/her. Now...WizO's in ISRP sepparate into those in the CRT and those in the Emporium. Whilst in the CRT you can assume they're someone important just because they're behind the counter or using a broom (like Pounamu did a few weeks ago i think). In the emporium however, you don't know them. They may as well be "just another elf" or "just another stinkin human". Don't start nodding to the marshal just because their name states their position.

(Disclaimer: This is said for newbs, those that haven't RP-ed with the WizO's yet or found out about them from other characters).

Actually, as an a bit of trivia, to date more people have asked Gabriel to serve them a drink before he was hired to work the bar than have since. Unfortunately it is not really possible to tell if a WizO's status in the setting without obeserving or asking. There are some of us who do work both settings regularly, sometimes we visit each other's settings, etc.

The simplest way to tell if a WizO is someone of importance in the setting is to look at them and see what they're doing (for instance when Gabriel is on watch I make a point to have him patroling around, being vigilant etc). All of the Marshals have something to identify them as a Marshal (usually an amulet) and usually any WizO tending bar in CRT will be doing some chore. If in doubt feel free to ask via private message.

Even if they are a part of the setting they may not be "on duty" per se at time. CRT WizOs in particular frequently come in just to chat and socialise with no intent to tend bar.

 

[Tharivious_Meliamne]

Try reading Tharivious's excellent guide to ISRP combat (see the sticky "ISRP Guides" for a link).

*Slips Trelian five bucks for the plug*

Saved me some time in bringing that one up myself. On to other things...

To expand on Preacher's points 12-15, since that is a category that deserves some more expansion in my opinion :

I have to back up the statement along knowing your character's abilities. Have them focus on something that they're skilled at, and know just how well they can do it. Have an idea of what your character's limits are, use them when you describe actions. If your character is a bungling thug in terms of combat ability, have him make mistakes in mid-swing, if he's a mage with a poor memory, have him cast spells improperly, things like that; likewise if your character is a master swordsman, play him as such with detailed descriptions of your actions and demonstrations of swordplay, or if he's a focused mage with good skill and strategy, play him as such.

Of course, there is room for growth in terms of abilities. Characters can access new potentials at all times, but there is a realistic way to do this, and a completely illogical way. Realistically, these new abilities would grow over time, slowly developing from isolated moments or lengths of practice. Illogically, they develop overnight and are mastered within days. Naturally, the more realistic gradual development will be more readily accepted by others. It keeps the character more pallatable when there is no instant-training in something the character only learned of yesterday.

When creating characters, restraint is a big factor. As many have said, just because you can do something in character creation, doesn't mean you should. This applies not just to creation, but also to development. Sure, the chats are full of powerful or very-powerful characters, but that's no requirement to bring more into the mix. Freeform is just that, and while a low-power martial type may not fare well against a high-power wizard, that's no reason to fault either style. Mages especially are a variable character type, they can choose from a broader range of options just for being what they are. Not every fight needs to be dominated by who can sling the most cheesy death spells or explosive visual effects in the shortest amount of time. Add some variety, use weaker spells against weaker opponents, and in most cases unless it's appropriate for the plotline in place, avoid full stop death effects for as long as feasable. Just because you're a high level mage who can sling a powerful spell-of-doom, doesn't mean that you have to; hold back, use weaker spells, extend the fight, have fun with it. A battle ended by the first action is little fun for either involved, you might as well not have one at that point in most cases.

Aaaannd... (heh, you guys know I always make long posts anyway )

Back to Preacher's point #11 (thanks for numbering these for reference by the way, much quicker than quoting ) of not presuming things: This applies to more than just IC/OOC situations, and ties in really well to combat situations. So many times I've seen fights where one character or another waves around the "I'm powerful enough to crush you in one blow, why won't you go flying from that hit?" sort of mentality, many times the same sort of player who does the exact same thing when they are on the receiving end saying "there's no way that could hit me". This is something to avoid. Not only does it tend to cast a poor light on the entire battle, but it casts a poor light on the player for many observers. Just because a character is maxed out to their full potential, does not mean they have a right to asume that all others are inferior by default in an OOC manner. If one character can have a huge attack bonus, another can have just as huge a defense bonus, if one can run from an attacker at top speed, the attacker can likely move just as fast. Also on this end, just because a character isn't entering actions often does not mean that they are standing still. Some players, like myself, prefer to take their time and create vivid descriptions of their characters' actions rather than short and repetitive actions. Give each other time, and all will go smoothly.

And on to point #25 (I'll stop soon, promise. ), originality is a huge factor, it will get you much farther in your roleplaying experience than just using another character/player's idea. In many cases, something original around here can be something expected elsewhere. Just because a race always serves something doesn't mean that every one you see in the tavern has to do the opposite. Look at the drow: They're expected to be vicious, Lolth worshipping backstabbers who hate surface elves. Look at how many Eilistraeeites there are around the ISRP, and how many evil, non-Lolthite drow there are around. Traditional drow are few in number, and thus could make for a viable option. Same extends to draegloths, the drow/demon hybrids: These are seen as a blessing of Lolth upon a drow family and valued greatly as weapons and champions; I brought one that opposed this theory to the ISRP over a year ago with great results (in my opinion at least, I still run him, so must have done something right with it) (and it unfortunately seems to have started a potential trend, as I've seen or heard of two other draegloths - one of which bears a suspicious resemblance to mine - recently, which I hope doesn't happen). If you see an original idea, don't clone it without the originators' consent, I've seen many cases where something like this has created bitterness from one player to another, and this can only cause problems for the site as a community. Some things are meant to be rare, and if a player is running something that seems special and is running it in an interesting way, it can diminish the enjoyment for them to see their idea running around with someone else behind it. On the other side of the same token, if a player does extend consent to do something along the same lines, then that's a great potential working point for a future group to spring up.

:tiphat: That's enough out of me I'd say, for now at least. :embarrass

 

[eternalkarma]

Also on this end, just because a character isn't entering actions often does not mean that they are standing still. Some players, like myself, prefer to take their time and create vivid descriptions of their characters' actions rather than short and repetitive actions. Give each other time, and all will go smoothly.

I would just like to say that this is a good point. Many's the time I've been in a fight, and had either my opponent, or someone from the crowd say something like, "soandso watches the unmoving people on the arena floor" or "soandso wonders when someone cast a stop time spell on him/her," all while I am typing a particularly long, descriptive action. It's irritating to have someone do this, especially when you are trying to put on a show for that person, or help the opponent envision your movements and actions.

Also remember, that sometimes, English may not be the person with whom you are fighting's first language, and that my be why it takes them a little longer to respond.

Another 2 cents from my corner.

 

[Fenmarel]

A friend has been nagging me to check on this thread. I took a look when it was initially put up before all the other bs popped up. Now all I can say is DANG!!! Anytime I'm involved in something with this much flaming I'm getting private messages left and right from DM's threatening to ban me.

Alot of good points made by BOTH sides here. Though at the same time alot of contradictions. One person says that a character sheet is a good thing to have so others will be more inclined to play then turns around in the EXACT same post and questions the thinking of another player that will only play engage in combat with a player that has a character sheet for his character. I don't care if someone has a DnD character sheet for their character as long as they have something down that will give them an idea of their powers and limitations other than a backstory fifty pages long concerning their father beating their mother forcing them to leave the farm for a life of an adventurer.

I believe the original intent of this post was to help the players both new and old. That was noble I'll give you that BUT it should have been locked after it was made since this was a summary of an event that took place. To let this go as far as it has with the outright flaming was bad form. Especially after coming back and saying you are following the thread.

The players here both new and old are going to do what they wish as long as they can get away with it. What I mean is they will continue on their current path as long as others roleplay with them and they don't get any warnings from the moderators. If they have folks willing to interact with them they must be doing it right huh? What some view as mistakes others view as creativity no matter how obsurd or unbelievable it may be. So no one will ever be "right" on this matter since it is all a matter of perspective.

I'm actually starting to slide to the mindset of "if I'm not affected by it why get bent out of shape over it?". If I am being affected by it then I'll try to rationally talk to the other player. If an understanding isn't possible then we both go our separate ways, no need for bad mouthing or anything else. If someone is doing things that just grate your nerves to the point you want to scream and talking to the player doesn't help use the ignore command. I know there are people that don't like to use the ignore because they like to see everything that is going on......well you can't have it both ways since not everyone is going to rp the same as you or in a style you can appreciate.

Basically we all have to learn to live with those that don't rp the same as us. Trying to force a player to rp a certain way won't work but drive them off. No one has the right to drive off players even the moderators if the player is doing everything within the rules of the site.

I did see something that I definately wanted to respond about.....when you ask someone to attack them plan out every single detail beforehand?!?! What did that come from?!? If you have to take all that time to plan it out bit by bit why even roleplay it out? Just say it happened off site. There would be no major roleplay involved because both parties know exactly what is going to happen action by action. That isn't freeform roleplaying but acting from a script. No sponataneous actions what so ever except "well I told him I'll hold my sword in my left hand and wand of death by unga bunga in the right but I'll switch it around to add some flavor". If you want to roleplay that way enroll in an acting class and become an actor with everything preordained before you start.

Well there is my post for the month. To those that know I'm still around in the RP side I'm busy moderating forums and DMing for a NWN mod called Always Autumn under PW Action. I haven't had the time to come around but you can pm me on our boards www.alwaysautumngame.com and I'm sure to get that quicker than email or pm's here. My log in name there is DM Gustin.

Have fun guys......Donnie, Bhryn, Nevine, Ladyshade, Rhane, Lily and Rajak you guys are still the best take care!

Oh this site being mentioned over and over again sounds like it might have some merit to it. I realize that it was stated that it was an R rated site so Nugan could you please send me a pm with the addy or any other player that has it handy. And yes I am definately old enough to visit an R rated site