ISRP Chat Moving Off Wizards' Website

[747]

Wow...

I can't... I'm having trouble believing it.

Wizards is just giving up on us?

"They're presenting too much of a problem, just move them to another site."

We're being seperated from WotC... Wow... Now we're just some independent RP community out there on the internet. No guide, no direction, no official connection to DND or anything, just...

*sigh*

ugh...

this is depressing...

I thought the problems with the new software were being fixed, I didn't think they were going to say "well, we're having some trouble with it, so that's it, pack you bags, you guys are out of here..."

I can't believe it. I must have misunderstood or something. Because I didn't think wizards was ever going to do something like that...

I know, it's not really like they have a choice or anything, ichat is a dated problematic black box, and nobody likes the new chat...

But I thought the new chat just had problems which would smooth out, not irreparable issues. Not only that, the introduction of the new chat would spring some fresh blood into ISRP.

I guess that's what this thread was about... seeing how many people cared... Probably wasn't enough...

So WotC is throwing Chat Roleplayers to the side, and being just kind enough to toss in a WizO or two. We're being abandoned; so to say: the umbilical cord that ties us to WotC is being severed. We'll just be some lost collection of roleplayers out on the internet, on some strange website, knowing where we came from, but not going anywhere. Just a bunch of old timers joined together on a site which will slowly and eventually dwindle away and die without the connection and support of WotC.

I'm disgusted by this, WotC had a problem, and instead of dealing with it, they did a head count, found that there weren't that many customers there, and decided to throw us to the side. Bumps could have been smoothed over, problems could have been dealt with, but this is all too much of a hassle for WotC... no, apparently, we should all just go away and leave, because the company doesn't want to have to deal with us...

fine... sure... it's a company... they can do what they want to their customers... especially give false promises.

 

[Hellfyre]

To be honest with you, this doesn't come as a surprise ... always knew that ISRP wouldn't last ... that's why I haven't visited it in a looooong time. Best of luck to Pou and Raven ... depending on what goes down, maybe I'll have to make a random appearance sometime

 

[Eddie_Hawkins]

Joy!

*tosses two coppers out*

I am overjoyed that someone who is able to host the servers is going to do so. I am further overjoyed that I'll be able to continue to play my carefully created characters. I am pleased that someone who doesn't have the reputation of acting like a petulant child, rather than a company that now seems to be behaving in that manner, will be running the show.

To be fair, I will admit there were complaints, even some stubborn refusal to accept change, from a large percentage of this community. Hells, a great portion of that commenting was pretty immature and whiny, definately not constructive at all. However, if I am to mention this in fairness, Wizards should be willing to admit other things, in fairness. Like arbitrarily dismissing the members of this community who were just pointing out that being stubborn, that continuing to go with a decision just because it's made, even when it's as obvious as a basilisk's [Igaze[/I] attack, or the fact that medusae cannot have a good hair day, that they were taken, is the wrong decision - no matter how you look at it. Like arbitrarily dismissing the members of this community for simply pointing out that Wizards, as a consumer in this case, has the same right as any consumer, to return a product they are not satisfied with or that was misrepresented to them and shouldn't just lie down and take it. Like arbitrarily dismissing the members of this community who pointed out these two facts - not opinions, but facts - with what's best for Wizards in mind.

Yes! With what was best for Wizards! See, what is best for Wizards is best for us, in the end, or so we believed. Their continued good-status means several things that benefits us. And what benefits us benefits Wizards. Ah, the symbiosis of capitalism. But if one of those involved makes poor decisions, it affects both - though not equally proportionate in both directions since one side is a single entity and the other is made up of a myriad of smaller entities. I'm not saying no one in the community has ever made a poor decision that adversely affected Wizards, but no one decision from one entity within this community has the ability to affect this relationship like a poor decision from the largest single entity in this relationship.

The members of this community may have become more and more insistent, maybe even more and more negative, but their reaction is very simple to understand. Wizards, being not only a manufacturer, but also a retailer, does grant us our right to return any product of theirs that we are not happy with, for any reason, within. . . er, within reason. They even encourage such in the interest of maintaining a satisfied customer base. Is it so difficult to understand our disappointment when Wizards refuses to exercise that very same right when they find themselves on the same side of the equation as we are with them, out of no apparent better reason than stubbornness? Don't we have a right to be disappointed in a company that just seems to sulk when they have been taken?

I don't think it's so difficult to understand at all. And I believe we have every right to be disappointed.

But then, there is the other problem. The fact that if we were to let all of this lie, we would still be forced to work with something much more cumbersome and awkward, just to be able to do what we can do now. Wait, no. Just to be able to do less than we can now. How does that make sense? How is that the least bit logical? Forgetting our disappointment for the above, I think this is a bigger problem. But that's probably more obvious by the fact that it takes pages less to explain. In fact, our favorite pointy-eared, green-blooded sci-fi half-alien could sum it up in one word: illogical.

But how much of this post really matters? Not a bit of it. Wizards seems to be so upset by the fact that we're not backing an incorrect decision that leaves us in a situation that is just plain illogical to expect us to react to in a similar fashion as the previous, better in every way situation, that they are more willing to throw us all away than they are to see reason, or even to just be logical. The obvious remedy, that they return their purchase for whatever refund or credit they can get and run the current software - which is running marvelously, and is something everyone in the community is completely satisfied with - is being rejected, even ignored. This, simply put, suggests that the company is being run by a preschool class. I mean, who else would just have a temper tantrum about people just pointing out a flaw and a simple solution to remedy it, as if no solution were suggested?

One other possibility, other than the whole preschool class idea, is almost too petty to contemplate. It needs to be explained, though it shouldn't be a long explanation.

Wizards (in one form or another; let's not nit-pick about which form of the company started it all, since they became what is here now) created a community. It was a free community. The fact that it was a free community seemed to suggest that Wizards cared more about furthering the overall gamer community, worldwide, rather than just making a stronger customer base to fleece. That community grew, as much from the idea of goodwill as it did from the means that Wizards gave us. This community wasn't always of a single mind, nor had a single opinion frequently gained enough support as to be considered by the creators. Now, something is occuring that has actually garnered a vast majority of the community against this event.

Wizards seems to be reacting a little too strongly. One cause for this I can see is that they are feeling a bit insulted by the fact that we feel that this is our community, too. After all, they created it and they suffer our presence, all while not charging us a single copper. How dare we? How dare we even entertain the idea that we even have a say in the matter? They offer this place for us to come at no charge, they even allow us to know of changes they have decided to make before they happen. They even suffer members of our community to "govern" us. (I have other opinions on that, but I won't get into it here - it isn't for now, though I may explain it to Raven or Pou, if They’re concerned. But I'm just as happy to let it drop.) How dare we?

Considering this, they must have decided we were getting unruly. They must have decided that they weren't getting enough of an increase in sales by suffering our existence. They must have thought that the OGL and the d20 liscence were better solutions to increasing their customer base. They must not think of us as fellows, but merely customers, merely sources of income.

Seriously, - not that I was speaking in jest with these theories - I see the temper tantrum and the greed theories to be the two most viable possibilities. However, for the record, I'd like to say that out of the two, I'd prefer the truth to be immature pettiness. Why? Because that at least suggests they cared in the first place. The greed theory insults us by reducing us to coin purses.

I don't think I want to continue. Besides, I am forced to admit that this entire post is moot. And so is everyone else's before and after this one. The damage is done, things have gone entirely too far. Wizards is washing their hands of us, turning their backs on us, treating us like toys they are done playing with, or playmates they never really liked in the first place, and have worn out their usefulness. Wizards is simply telling us that if we aren't going to blindly follow them, then they won't pretend to care any longer. They will simply keep us at arm's length and return to their position as manufacturer and dealer of our drugs of choice.

I say to this, "Fantastic!" That's right. Contrary to the tone of the rest of this post, I think this is good news! We are going to be able to continue on as we are now. Those who are truly members of this community, this entity that does and will continue to exist without Wizards, shall do what so many of us are incapable. They shall make it possible to continue. I'm telling you all, I know every one of us would do the same if we were able. I know this. You all know this. Wizards knows this. Raven and Pou know this. But please, don't let that keep you from recognizing those who are able and will be making it happen.

I, just as Jude, am looking forward to the new home of ISRP. And I, full of joy and gleeful anticipation of this wonderous first step into a bright new future for our community, shall not look back.

Forward. Ever forward.

 

[sagetim]

this would be a bad time to apply for becoming a wizo, wouldn't it?

ah....alas, with the move, there will be little reason for me to keep a boards account here at WOTC.

well, anyway, here's my query about this big move, do we have to sign back up for our account names, and if so, where do we do that?

and yes I have read the rest of this thread, I'm just too lazy and tired to remember if this was already answered.....

oh, and it seems like a bum deal to dump us ISRPers because of a SINGLE activity check. not all of us can get to our PC's in the summer or on weekends. checking on ONE weekend and making a decision from that is simply inane. to base a decision of such consequence upon a single thing, no matter what that thing is, well, its just a plain ol' bad buisiness practice.
For example: would you base buying a classic car on the price from a single dealer? no, you would shop around and get it as cheap as possible. would you declare war on someone for a single indiscretion? (bush doesnt count) no, because no matter the indiscretion, you would try to avoid war and work things out. perhaps we should simply rally in our own thread, to show how many of us there truely are that support ISRP. perhaps if the company knows just how many of us there are that are willing to complain and boycott they will rethink this move.... this is my plan...and anyone willing to use it is welcome to it.

 

[Velaria]

I am astounded, that a company so long ago when we were about to chat about 3e with one of the company, stated to me that this was not about money, it was about their consumers and keeping them happy. Well, once more we are shown that it is about capatilisim and not about the human that helps them make their money.

I am chagrined to think that a game I have played since I was 13, a site rp area I have been on for many a year, is being cast out like a unwated child.


I am happy to know that there are those willing enough to continue our beloved home. That have the abality to not throw away the years of heart and soul, that many have put in to their charecters here,no matter how long we have been here, and leave us out to dry much as we had been before.

I knew when Wizards took over, it was a matter of time. I am sorrowed and extreamly heart broken it has come to this. Our home once more shattered by foolishness, and the darkness overwhelming us again.

We survived the last migration, we shall again. Watch and see, one day Wizards will look back on this move and say, we never should of.... but then they were never known for their foresight now were they.

Velaria Starmantle Flame Rohuan * a blast from the past returned from the shadows*

 

[WizO_Adele]

First, let me preface this by saying I speak mainly for myself here and not as much in an official capacity.

This decision to close ISRP came as a shock to all of us. From what I understand it was multifold and not easily reached; a combination of the long-term negativity about the new software, a tenuous connection to marketing/customer support, high resource requirements, and a belief that many of the patrons would not be transitioning over.

Please note that neither Wizards of the Coast, nor the WizO staff, are not affiliated with the new website. It is an act of courtesy that they have provided this free advertising and transition period to assist the transition of a community and help ISRP regulars locate a new home. The WizO's that may be transitioning over in a moderator capacity will be doing so completely on their own. While they may borrow some content and regulations, it will not be an associated entity, but on level with any other fan site on the web.

I feel a deep level of regret at the closing of ISRP. I had always hoped we would have a long lived and highly enjoyed tenure on the Wizards website. There were many plans in the works, and most of us were very excited about many of the changes. We are a passionate community, and one very devoted to role-playing, just as much as our counterparts. There is nothing we wouldn't have accomplished if we set our mind to it. I never saw the chat changeover as a deadly blow, just a small obstacle to be overcome. Change is always ripe with challenges, but always worth the long road. I have spent over six years here and poured my heart into my work every day, from the many competitions I created and ran, shifts I hosted, to the everyday leadership. Clearly, this is a hard blow for most of us to take. I am very thankful for the opportunity I had to serve and represent for as long as I did, and that no one revolted too much at my continued presence.

I do regret that I did not do a better job of leading ISRP towards the needed direction, and that I was not as firm at times as was probably best. I am deeply sorry for any part I may have inadvertently played in this.

While I wish there was something we could do to change this outcome (and maybe there is some hope in the long term for a role-playing type chat area of Wizards), I really do not believe further hostility is representative of ISRP, nor is it how we should desire to be remembered. It does everyone a great disservice and is rather thankless not only to Wizards, but also to the WizO's, who have long served the community and even now have agreed to stay on to provide you a final month together and an opportunity to wrap up your storylines.

I will not attempt to dissuade anyone from posting their comments, thoughts or even attempts to change the outcome, but I do ask that everyone use the opportunity to show everyone, not just Wizards, that we are as a general rule a courteous and polite group who is fully capable of discussing, expressing and arguing our dissatisfaction like adults.

Please do not make the work of the remaining staff even more difficult. We do not want to be placed in the position of warning any of our members in the final days of the area. Furthermore, it only serves to further erode any chance we have of redeeming a certain negative image that a few have earned for the masses, as well as lowering the odds of any future decisions in our favor.

To answer a few questions that may arise:

Is there anything we can do to make WotC change its mind?
In the long term, it may be possible to rebuild something of a role-playing related community on Wizards. When, I do not know. What, I do not know. But if there is a true need, and it can fulfill the requirements of a successful area I am sure Wizards will consider it. I have no doubts that we as a community could build something that would satisfy the needs of Wizards while satisfying the needs of the community. We always had the potential, just never much of the drive. Perhaps, we can find that in the wake of this decision and someday create something better for everyone.

Why make us go through the discussions on the settings only to shut the area down?
The decision to close ISRP was recently made in the days after the new chat software open house and announced to the ISRP team (myself included) within the last week. I can assure you we would never have willfully and knowingly engaged in such discussions had we known, nor do I believe it was Wizards intent to let us waste effort.

Will the ISRP boards be shut down?
Yes, after the chat area closes the related ISRP boards will be shut down and then deleted. Once Upon a Time and the other creative boards will be relocated under the RPG Boards team and will continue on. I have requested that Melanie archive the ISRP boards for a short period of a week or two, after the chat and board closing, before a final delete, to provide everyone an opportunity to back up any important threads in their final form. I will keep everyone appraised of Melanie's decision.

Did the patron count thread have anything to do with this?
No, it did not. It was a simple question of my own after auditing the setting votes. I was curious just how many people were actually following the boards, much less were actually in chat. I was hoping to see how many patrons we actually had in ISRP. It was not used to make the decision. On a personal level, I would still like to see how many lives ISRP has touched in it's time here, and for that I'd still like the thread to continue. Please encourage your friends to post on it. But be honest. It's not about jacking up numbers but showing an accurate portrayal.

If you have any questions or would like to speak to me directly I am available at adele@wizo.wizards.com.

 

[Da_Nah]

You give Wizards/TSR/Hasbro too much credit.

Please.....

You must, and I mean MUST understand that only those among the Website community has any idea what is going on. First off, it was one person among the great Wizo MELting pot who made the decision on what chat software package to choose. The management looks to its staff of personnel to assist them in the direction of their website. The software was chosen with specific aims in mind. Reasons were given twards its security and ease of use but in reality it was never intended to host Rping on the site. I would give credit where credit is due but I'm not sure it was a fully conscious decision at the time of the software purchase.

Now tward your comments regarding why WoTC or even Hasbro would drop the community in this manner, I am almost positive that it is due to lack of knowledge.

Hasbro is a publicly traded stock http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=HAS&d=t
They are a large company and are likely unaware of any financial benefit that role playing has on the site. Many of you are avid gamers like me and are continuously spending money on role playing products. We also come to the web site to roleplay, we like the site and continue to buy WoTC products...

Consider this... How much do you spend TOTAL (not just WoTC) on games and gaming products over one year?
((gaming books, fantasy reading books, computer games, etc... It all ties in))

Give me a minute to add it up... Because this is what WoTC is after and what they are not realizing they are losing to other companies. Alienating role players by forcing them off the site will only make them more likely to purchase products from other gaming companies.

I've got it... It took a while... Now I have a good job and ... well here it is:
I spent about two thousand dollars last year.. that is $2,000.00 --
(What can I say it was a slow year for games.) I have spent well over $7,000 in some years when you count conventions and other gaming costs.

The average gamer won't spend this much, but the average gamer is much younger. Gamers' brand recognition lingers for a very very long time.

HASBRO should remember its customer, because we will remember this.
It takes a long time to get a customer and only minutes to lose them.

Thx
Da_Nah

Please consider posting how much you spent on gaming, and maybe they will hear us.

 

[747]

I'm a little calmer, but still angry and disappointed in WotCs actions, both the attempt at the new chat, and the shift.

What could they have done? They could have gone on supporting iChat.

...oh well...

Maybe the site and the chat will be better off and more prosperous anyway, if we get a whole site going for it, things might work out rather well.

I just hope they advertise the site a little, or the site gets an angle at which to advertise itself so that it's able to attract newcomers also. Not that I don't like this batch of people , it's just that my primary worry is that the site will die out from lack of the occasional new blood that WotC was somewhat able to provide.

and by the way, I doubt saying this will have any effect, but if it's of any interest: just yesterday when my brother was shopping at Borders after he discovered that the new Harry Potter book was sold out, I bought the Manual of the Planes. $30 right there...

I guess... thanks WizOs, thanks for your effort...

 

[Velaria]

Da Nah upon calculation of my expenditures, for a year I would spend about 7,800 USD. That is a regular expenditure for me at average of 150 per week. Though it is a small drop in the bucket to such a gaming company, I doubt unfortunatly this will make any differance either. However by the fact that this is one person that is making this decision, and Wizards as it is said is not supporting it. Well...this disgusts me even more.

I shall step out of this discussion without any further words on the matter since I have voiced my opinions already. But I do hope that reason would be seen, though I see little chance of it.

 

[Nevine]

I guess I will say something positive.

Thank you, Adele. For all your work as ISRP Lead. In my decade of visitation to those rooms, you are, in my opinion, the best Lead we've had. I hope we see you around sometime, somewhere.

Thank you, ISRP WizO's and TSRO's of yore. I appreciate work, for those that stuck with the area, you have all done.