It’s LAUNCH DAY For The Pathfinder 2 Playtest!

Today’s the day! You can now download the Pathfinder 2nd Edition playtest book!

Head on over to Paizo.com to download it for free.

Its tinged with a little sadness for those of us who preordered the hard copy, as issues with Amazon means that our copies have been delayed by an indefinite amount.

’’When Paizo was planning this year's Pathfinder Playtest, we expected to exceed our own ability to fulfill orders on a timely basis, so we decided to use Fulfillment by Amazon. Unfortunately, Amazon's reports indicate that most customers will not be receiving their orders by tomorrow's release date. They shipped 3 orders on July 28, 3 more on July 29, and no orders on July 30 or 31. Today, they have shipped almost 10% of the outstanding orders, and they are continuing to ship through the night and into tomorrow. They have so far been unable to tell us when they will complete shipping.”

However, at least the PDFs are still available for free in the meantime.

Adventure chapters are also available alongside the rule book, with the first being available today. They are as follows:

1. The Lost Star, Aug 7 - Aug 26 (Also available at Gen Con on Aug 2.)
2. In Pale Mountain’s Shadow, Aug 7 - Sep 9
3. Affair At Sombrefell Hall, Sep 10 - Sep 23
4. The Mirrored Moon, Sep 24 - Oct 8
5. The Heroes Of Undarin, Oct 9 - Oct 21
6. Red Flags, Oct 22 - Nov 4
7. When The Stars Go Dark, Nov 5 - Nov 18

 

[Dire Bare]

We’ve had votes for 2E-3E, 3.5-3.0(?!), and 3.5-4E. Running out of options, but I’m gonna grab 1E-2E before it goes! I think that only leaves 4E-5E.

Personally, I think the difference between PF1 and PF2 is most like the difference between the original white box D&D and the Holmes 77 D&D basic set.

EDIT: The above is me being silly, of course. But an apt comparison does come to mind! Green Ronin's Mutants and Masterminds 1E superhero game was very much like D&D 3E, just like PF1, as both are derived from the 3E OGL. M&M moved further and further away from D&D each time it got an edition upgrade (it's on its 3rd Edition right now). The same seems to be happening to Pathfinder, although perhaps to a lesser extent.

 

[Mercurius]

It does seem like there's a diversity of views, but that the consensus--or at least the median--is something like "more than a little, but not enormous."

Anyhow, the discussion and a skimming of the playtest has gotten me interested in trying PF2 at some point.

One more question: How is it crunch-wise, relative to PF1 (very rules heavy) and, say, 5E (rules medium plus)? It seems a bit less rules-heavy than PF1...or maybe it has just been tightened up and streamlined a bit, sort of like the change from AD&D 1E to 2E.

 

[Tumorseal]

I think it is long past time for a Pathfinder only section of the forum.

 

[The Human Target]

I would say, very rules heavy.

 

[Henry]

[MENTION=59082]Mercurius[/MENTION], PFRPG2 to PFRPG1 is like 3.5 to 3.0. Same base system, new mechanics. The changes are _nowhere_ near jump from 2E to 3E.

I really have to disagree. Between the “spell grooves” system similar to 5th edition, and the de-emphasis of odd numbered stats, and the MUCH tighter math between two characters of equal level, and the removal of 3e style multiclassing, it’s more like going from 3e D&D to 5e D&D. Personally, I like it, but the reaction on the forums seems quite mixed.

One more question: How is it crunch-wise, relative to PF1 (very rules heavy) and, say, 5E (rules medium plus)? It seems a bit less rules-heavy than PF1...or maybe it has just been tightened up and streamlined a bit, sort of like the change from AD&D 1E to 2E.

I’d say the crunch is definitely still there, but moved around. Skills simplified, weapons complexity added. Class features simplified, but the level of choice in your class diversity greatly expanded via class feats and skill feats.

 

[Henry]

That makes two of us. Lucky that is.

My Amazon pre-order Hardback shipped yesterday, is in route, and scheduled for delivery Friday. ​

I ordered through Amazon and had no problem, it arrived today at exactly the time specified. It seems the problem was mainly with Paizo orders to Amazon’s fulfillment services - Amazon (intentionally or not) really screwed Paizo on this deal. By contrast, the playtest download that was contracted to via Amazon Web Services went super-smoothly from what I could tell. I checked around 1PM EDT and had my bundle by 1:02.

 

[Charlaquin]

One more question: How is it crunch-wise, relative to PF1 (very rules heavy) and, say, 5E (rules medium plus)? It seems a bit less rules-heavy than PF1...or maybe it has just been tightened up and streamlined a bit, sort of like the change from AD&D 1E to 2E.

It is very crunchy, closer to PF1 than it is to 5e, but I would argue that is crunch is put to better use than PF1. PF1 often feels needlessly complex to me, where PF2 feels like its complexity is always being put to very specific purpose.

I think this system is unfortunately going to require a lot of overhead to learn. As I’m reading, I’m frequently having to hop back and forth between different sections to understand everything. A Class Feat might let me use a certain basic skill action in a different way, so I need to hop to the skills section to see what that action does, but it turns out that action gives the subject certain Condition on a success, and another Condition on a critical success, so then I have to jump over to the Condition section to see what they do... It’s a lot of work right now, but I imagine once I’m used to it, it’ll make things very easy to quickly use and reference. That’s one of the ways it’s similar to 4e - lots of technical jargon and keywording, which means it will be highly user-friendly for those who take the time to become literate with it, but it may be alienating for more casual users.

 

[mewzard]

It is very crunchy, closer to PF1 than it is to 5e, but I would argue that is crunch is put to better use than PF1. PF1 often feels needlessly complex to me, where PF2 feels like its complexity is always being put to very specific purpose.

I think this system is unfortunately going to require a lot of overhead to learn. As I’m reading, I’m frequently having to hop back and forth between different sections to understand everything. A Class Feat might let me use a certain basic skill action in a different way, so I need to hop to the skills section to see what that action does, but it turns out that action gives the subject certain Condition on a success, and another Condition on a critical success, so then I have to jump over to the Condition section to see what they do... It’s a lot of work right now, but I imagine once I’m used to it, it’ll make things very easy to quickly use and reference. That’s one of the ways it’s similar to 4e - lots of technical jargon and keywording, which means it will be highly user-friendly for those who take the time to become literate with it, but it may be alienating for more casual users.

I feel like once an SRD is up and running and this stuff is a quick search and decently organized with links and what have you, it'll make it all the easier to pick up. Still in my first read through, finally at skills.

 

[Aldarc]

I would say that the crunch is far more transparent in PF2 than PF1, though the "natural language" of PF1 obscured the complexity of the crunch. I could see how that transparent high crunch level of PF2 could be highly intimidating for a new player to RPGs. The game, at least according to most live play groups, was easy to run. So it's possible that PF2 has a higher entry point but a more leveled-off play point in terms of its crunch, complexity, and easy-of-play. Sadly, I have so many systems that I want to try - and so many players in my group who want to keep us to a small subset of systems (3-5) - that I may likely not get a chance to playtest this properly.

 

[Jhaelen]

It is very crunchy, closer to PF1 than it is to 5e, but I would argue that is crunch is put to better use than PF1. PF1 often feels needlessly complex to me, where PF2 feels like its complexity is always being put to very specific purpose.

I would hope so. PF1 is definitely too complex for my taste (these days). While I can still handle the complexity with some effort (and precious time), neither my DM nor my fellow players are up to it. And that's a really bad thing.