It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

[doctorhook]

“It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.”

Is this some kind of sick joke, OP?

Nah, they’ve barely even begun to earn forgiveness. I can’t imagine the amount of stress that content creators had to deal with this past month because of Hasbro’s contractual whims. WotC are not heroes for putting out the fire that they started.

 

[Clint_L]

WotC are not heroes for putting out the fire that they started.

Hmmm...this is fun to consider. Are they heroes for:

A) releasing open content to begin with, which very few companies do with their IP?
B) releasing open content because they thought it would directly benefit themselves?
C) attempting to rescind their open licence in order to benefit themselves/their investors?
D) ultimately doing the right thing, and permanently sharing a large amount of their IP?

Ethically speaking, this is kind of an interesting question. A deontologist (classic example Immanuel Kant) would probably argue that they are not heroes, since ultimately ethics are tied to motives (though I suppose if you are a hardcore capitalist an argument could be made that maximizing return to investors is a categorical imperative, and so the motives were not immoral to begin with).

But a consequentialist (classic example John Stuart Mill) would definitely argue that they are heroes, because motives are irrelevant, all that matters are results. I think both a rules or an act-based consequentialist would agree that this is a outcome that increases the common good, so ultimately Hasbro/WotC deserve plaudits and we should now erect a corporate statue in the town square.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled episode of The Good Place.

 

[Parmandur]

Again with the talk of forgiveness. WotC and I are not in a personal relationship. It has always been and remains purely transactional. If they have something I want, I will buy it. If they don't, I won't. Mostly...they don't make stuff I want. But DnDBeyond is a huge convenience and integral to D&D Club, so they will keep getting my seven bucks a month for that, at a minimum.

Yeah, WotC isn't my friend, it isn't my spouse. It's a toy vendor. I'm glad the adults who understand the gaming scene won, but that doesn't create a social relationship between me and a toy vendor.

 

[Parmandur]

Hmmm...this is fun to consider. Are they heroes for:

A) releasing open content to begin with, which very few companies do with their IP?
B) releasing open content because they thought it would directly benefit themselves?
C) attempting to rescind their open licence in order to benefit themselves/their investors?
D) ultimately doing the right thing, and permanently sharing a large amount of their IP?

Ethically speaking, this is kind of an interesting question. A deontologist (classic example Immanuel Kant) would probably argue that they are not heroes, since ultimately ethics are tied to motives (though I suppose if you are a hardcore capitalist an argument could be made that maximizing return to investors is a categorical imperative, and so the motives were not immoral to begin with).

But a consequentialist (classic example John Stuart Mill) would definitely argue that they are heroes, because motives are irrelevant, all that matters are results. I think both a rules or an act-based consequentialist would agree that this is a outcome that increases the common good, so ultimately Hasbro/WotC deserve plaudits and we should now erect a corporate statue in the town square.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled episode of The Good Place.

They are nothing, because a corporation isn't a people.

I'm sure people inside the company are complex and all over the place.

 

[Clint_L]

They are nothing, because a corporation isn't a people.

I'm sure people inside the company are complex and all over the place.

Yes, I was being a bit ironical (thus the corporate statue in the town square).

 

[doctorbadwolf]

None of this stopped me from playing my weekly game. And there hasn't been another play test for me to examine.

So i don't know what else you expect me to get back on board with.

That said. "Thank WotC" is not the right word. "Forgive WotC" would be more accurate.

Holding a grudge isn't good for anyone's health.

This.

Also, I sure as heck am not going to stop working on my 5e-lite concept, supporting @Sacrosanct 's Basic 5e concept (bugbears of the Borderlands?), contributing to your community created dnd, or my adventures in Chevar port of my own game to a 5e chassis.

I'm still going to spend more money on 3pp this year, I'm still gonna support ORC and everything else that has come out of all this.

And I'm going to reinstate my DDB subscription. Because when someone corrects course and does right, and gives a solid apology for doing wrong, my belief is that it is appropriate to show appreciation for that. I don't care about any "no one gets a cookie for doing what they're supposed to do" mindset, i'm happy I don't work for or with anyone with that mindset because yes, you do give "cookies" for doing what they're supposed to do. Especially when doinig so is a course correction you asked them to make.

I hold no judgemnt forthose for whom this isn't enough, or who are going to require time to even consider forgiveness. This debacle hurt.

But I'm not going to hold a grudge, personally.

 

[Jaeger]

A) releasing open content to begin with, which very few companies do with their IP?

This was done when D&D nerd Peter Adkinson ran the roost at WotC, pre Hasbro buyout.

No publicly traded corporation would ever do such a thing.

Believe me, if Hasbro-Wotzi would take it back if they thought they could get away with it.

Oh, that's right, They've tried that Twice now...

Fool me once; shame on you.

Fool me twice...

 

[Saracenus]

I don't even have half the salt of lot of people here and I think that it is a bit presumptuous to tell everyone else to get back on board. That is a personal decision that each and everyone of us. Even WotC's offer of a one on one conversation with Executive Producer Kyle Brink sent to multiple D&D YouTubers, said:

"The past few weeks have hurt many people, but more than anything, it has disproportionately hurt all of you: the creators and life long fans of Dungeons & Dragons. There is hard work to be done by our team; that work starts now."

It is WotC's job to make amends (which they have started) and ask for forgiveness. It is our job to accept or reject it, that is on us as individuals.

This was a first step, so no, it is not all good. What is that saying? "A thousand yeses equals a single no." Rebuilding trust is going to take time and effort by all parties involved.

Let people process this in their own time.

 

[Clint_L]

This was done when D&D nerd Peter Adkinson ran the roost at WotC, pre Hasbro buyout.

No publicly traded corporation would ever do such a thing.

Believe me, if Hasbro-Wotzi would take it back if they thought they could get away with it.

Oh, that's right, They've tried that Twice now...

Fool me once; shame on you.

Fool me twice...

They can't really fool you again though, because it's done. It's in the Creative Commons. They can't do take-backsies even if they want.

 

[Novak]

I don't think any of us have a claim on anyone else's reaction to this news.

A week ago, I had resolved never to give WotC another dime of my money, unless something significant changed. Today, I find there has been a significant change in their stance, and I have moved to being comfortable giving them money in exchange for (say) 5e adventure paths, but not for electronic products like VTTs where I still do not trust their ultimate intentions.

But that is a personal reaction in two senses:

First, in that it is mine and mine alone. It needs no external validation, nor does it seek to persuade or cajole others into agreement.

Second, in that it is distinct from my philosophical reaction, which is that WotC has come too close to total market dominance for the good of the community and the hobby. Obviously, their dominance is not as complete as it may have seemed, and surely not as complete as they thought. But it was complete enough that they thought they could pull this off. As alarming as this has all been, though, I think some good will come of it through the ORC, through Kobolds' Project Black Flag, and through other developments not yet begun or announced. I look forward to having more meaningful choices than "OGL1.0a or CC 4.0-BY for 5e" a year from now.