Item Creation and the error of loosing Experience

[Frostmarrow]

"From this we learn that in order to make a Wand of Fireball the wizard need to make a spellcraft check versus DC 28 or face the fireball-misfire (8d6 Reflex save 14 save for half). If succesful the wizard gains 960 XP. If not the wizard must start over again (if still alive). The failure consumes half of the ingredients (or whatever is the usual amount)."


DC 28!? Sounds rough to just make your first wand at fifth level. Even with a 20 INT, a wiz would need a roll of 15 to succeed. One should allow partial failures like they have for climbing...ie at a roll of 14, that wand won't blow up in your face, but the days work is lost, that is all. at a roll of 9(failure greater than 5), there is a minor explosion, and half the wand's value is lost in it's creation, start over...after healing from the one charge that got loose! On a roll of 4 (failure greater than 10) the wand detonates at full explosive value (roll to see how many charges were inputed at the failure point), item totally destoyed.

since the caster has a bonus of 8, it is impossible to fail that badly on the basis of a simple roll for a simple wand. But more comlicated items can carry serious creation risks now. Risks which grant XP!

This would still heavily encourage spellcasters to take a few levels of rogue, but not be lethal to those just trying out new item creation feats.

I think DC 28 is about right. Sure you can tweak it if you like. Still, 20%-30% chance of creating an object which not only grants you extra power but also gives you more experience seems fair to me. Especially when you just about qualify for the job. (And it leaves a little space for the DM's best friend a +2 bonus for good role-play/clever thinking.)

But the main benefit of doing it the suggested way is that the maker is probably going to keep his buddies around to protect him. I mean what if the "trap" summons a monster or if a dart poisons the maker? It can be an adventure all to it self! -And you get to use all those marvelous traps you have collected on your book-shelf in S&S and other books.

Take a peek here for what you'd might have to expect:

http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/Traps.rtf (page4 and on).

 

[Hecateus]

I see xp loss for magic items as skill degradation. You are spending so much time creating a magic item that your other skills degrade making it so that you have to spend more time rebuilding your skills by adventuring.

The generic gold cost bothers me far more than the xp cost of creating a magic item.

By the Rules IIRC, an Item Creater can never spend enough XP to force him/herself to lose a level, so you never lose skills and such due to degredation. Though you have neatly rationalized the reduced rate of XP advancement.

Frostmarrow, I forgot that one of the possible side effects of item creation failure could be not an explosive result, but simply a bad item, possibly cursed. Ie the Wand of Fireballs would on mild failure have a shoreter range, or do less damage per die etc. On a bad but not catastrophic failure, the item is 'cursed' or so bad off that it is useless for it's intended purpose.

[edit] yeah getting OT, but this is fun!

 

[Frostmarrow]

Frostmarrow, I forgot that one of the possible side effects of item creation failure could be not an explosive result, but simply a bad item, possibly cursed. Ie the Wand of Fireballs would on mild failure have a shoreter range, or do less damage per die etc. On a bad but not catastrophic failure, the item is 'cursed' or so bad off that it is useless for it's intended purpose.

[edit] yeah getting OT, but this is fun!

Good idea. Seemingly the possibilities are endless.

 

[KarinsDad]

I see xp loss for magic items as skill degradation. You are spending so much time creating a magic item that your other skills degrade making it so that you have to spend more time rebuilding your skills by adventuring.

The generic gold cost bothers me far more than the xp cost of creating a magic item.

As opposed to the fighter who never uses his climb or swim skills, but continues to get better at them?

I do not use experience points in my game for item creation. I use the Artificers Handbook from Mystic Eye Games where the limitations are gold (or expensive special materials which need to be found or acquired), time, and the capability of the spell caster to make those items.

The other advantage of that system is that it basically has 4 item creation feats which means that any spell casting class can specialize in crafting all types of items, not just Wizards.

 

[der_kluge]

I dug this link up for another thread, but figured it might be useful here as well. If anyone has any questions about the Artificer's Handbook, this might be a good place to start -

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60888&highlight=artificers+handbook

 

[kirinke]

hm

personally, i did like the old item creation rules that reward xp instead of taking them away. but there should be a risk as well.

What the core books are trying to do is explain that you are putting a great deal of your own personal magic and energy into an item. So instead of xp, perhaps it should be constitution and Hit points (which represent the 'life force' of an individual).

Make it relatively temporary. Say a year to recover constitition and hit points for each attribute of the magical item they want to make (if it calls for xp loss). With the other risks involved, that should keep the more powerful items rare, instead of common.

 

[Altalazar]

It seems to be a sacrifice to the "game balance" gods.

I use the EXP cost system in my game, but use the "power item" variant - so the EXP cost can be reduced or even eliminated with the proper incredient(s) for a given item.

That makes things much more interesting anyway - it is far more rewarding for a player to craft an item after questing for various ingredients (dragon heart, tears of a sylph, fragment of a blade immersed in mount doom) and then questing again to get the most reknowned Dwarven Smith to make the final item for enchantment. Makes the player REALLY appreciate the item, while still allowing item creation.

Of course, I suppose ten epic quests to create a potion of cure light wounds is PROBABLY overkill, but hey, that can be worked in there somewhere too.