Xeriar
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Item Creation as Skills
- Thread starter Xeriar
- Start date
Xeriar
First Post
This is an idea I've been toying around with for awhile now, along with metamagic as skills. Metamagic as skills makes for potential mechanical problems, but item creation as feats makes no sense to me whatsoever, so here this is.
Some costs have been adjusted, some things combined, etc. There is still a catch-all 'craft wondrous item' item, I'm thinking this might be better broken down based on the type of enchantment rather than individual items.
Some costs have been adjusted, some things combined, etc. There is still a catch-all 'craft wondrous item' item, I'm thinking this might be better broken down based on the type of enchantment rather than individual items.
I like it a lot, but I dont know how balanced it is. I'll try running a few numbers tomorrow when I get some time.
Can you give a rundown of a few common items? I'd like to see the dc's required and just how hard it is to even use the extra modifiers (+15 seems rough, especially for an already complex item. not saying this is bad, just want to see if it even matters to think about it being used eventually, and i dont use epic rules as written so it'd be in the <20 range)
Might need to toss a few feats in as well. We all know Skill focus (magecraft) +3. But you will also need at least one +2/+2 and probably two of them would be best. One for +2spellcraft/+2magecraft, +2knowledge(arcana)/+2magecraft which would simulate what the other feats did sortof. 3 feats for +7 isnt too bad for a specialized character. Possibly even: Efficient creator - gain +5 to your magecraft checks whenever you use efficient.
Can you give a rundown of a few common items? I'd like to see the dc's required and just how hard it is to even use the extra modifiers (+15 seems rough, especially for an already complex item. not saying this is bad, just want to see if it even matters to think about it being used eventually, and i dont use epic rules as written so it'd be in the <20 range)
Might need to toss a few feats in as well. We all know Skill focus (magecraft) +3. But you will also need at least one +2/+2 and probably two of them would be best. One for +2spellcraft/+2magecraft, +2knowledge(arcana)/+2magecraft which would simulate what the other feats did sortof. 3 feats for +7 isnt too bad for a specialized character. Possibly even: Efficient creator - gain +5 to your magecraft checks whenever you use efficient.
Xeriar
First Post
You can take 10 on the check. Since the base DC is usually 10 + ranks required, you may only need to roll when you try one of the special modifiers as above.
1 skill focus is +3, a '+2/+2' feat is +2, something like educated for magecraft/psicraft could be balanced giving +1 to all such skills. Add in synergy for highly related craft -or- knowledge skills, that raises it to +8. With a say, +2 int bonus, that's +10. Using the +15 modifiers will be quite tough.
Allowing for both Artificer and Artisan to be rolled into 'take 10' without issue by a non-Wizard.
The Rapid and Efficient are supposed to be rough, since they mimic Epic level abilities.
The formula thing for constructs is ultrarough. A feat granting a +4 bonus to such int checks, with an epic version at +8, is probably not out of the question (DC 50 and a decade to make the first of any colossus!)
Permenant/unlimited effects need to be re-thought out, as well as uses per day. Need to take duration into account.
Anyway, for a comparison, armors, ability boosters, some jewelry and most wondrous items cost the same, XP wise. Weapons and some jewelry cost half. I've eliminated the absolute need for gp because, frankly, it's a stupid concept unless you decide to develop something like orichalcum as in Shadowrun, and I figure DMs who wish to do that would rather just, well, do so.
1 skill focus is +3, a '+2/+2' feat is +2, something like educated for magecraft/psicraft could be balanced giving +1 to all such skills. Add in synergy for highly related craft -or- knowledge skills, that raises it to +8. With a say, +2 int bonus, that's +10. Using the +15 modifiers will be quite tough.
Allowing for both Artificer and Artisan to be rolled into 'take 10' without issue by a non-Wizard.
The Rapid and Efficient are supposed to be rough, since they mimic Epic level abilities.
The formula thing for constructs is ultrarough. A feat granting a +4 bonus to such int checks, with an epic version at +8, is probably not out of the question (DC 50 and a decade to make the first of any colossus!)
Permenant/unlimited effects need to be re-thought out, as well as uses per day. Need to take duration into account.
Anyway, for a comparison, armors, ability boosters, some jewelry and most wondrous items cost the same, XP wise. Weapons and some jewelry cost half. I've eliminated the absolute need for gp because, frankly, it's a stupid concept unless you decide to develop something like orichalcum as in Shadowrun, and I figure DMs who wish to do that would rather just, well, do so.
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Xeriar
First Post
Bump, the rules have been streamlined some (see link above) and some examples:
Boots of Speed (10 rounds/day):
Craft Enchanted Item: 13 ranks
Base DC: 23
XP Cost: 800
Time: 13 hours
Ring of Protection +5
Forge Defensive Item: 11 ranks
Base DC: 21
XP Cost: 1,000
Time: 25 hours
Boots of Elvenkind
Imbue Item With Skill Ability: 10 ranks
Base DC: 20
XP Cost: 1,000
Time: 10 hours
Potion of Cure Serious Wounds
Imbue Fetish: 8 ranks
Base DC: 18
XP Cost: 20
Time: 8 hours
Boots of Speed (10 rounds/day):
Craft Enchanted Item: 13 ranks
Base DC: 23
XP Cost: 800
Time: 13 hours
Ring of Protection +5
Forge Defensive Item: 11 ranks
Base DC: 21
XP Cost: 1,000
Time: 25 hours
Boots of Elvenkind
Imbue Item With Skill Ability: 10 ranks
Base DC: 20
XP Cost: 1,000
Time: 10 hours
Potion of Cure Serious Wounds
Imbue Fetish: 8 ranks
Base DC: 18
XP Cost: 20
Time: 8 hours
I dont have my dmg with me right now, how do these exp expenditures compare with their normal expenditures in the rules? It seems that they are much higher by intention, but I could be wrong.
Other than that though I like how you are running it. It is good to have the skills there in order to make it seem like something a bit more special. Not just, 'I'm level 3! time to go make me a pile of wonderous items, how much money do I have' but into 'I have gained a great deal of skill, with further training I shall attain the near exclusive ability to make item xxxx, perhaps I shall garner the training for the feat to enhance my abilities later on'
Other than that though I like how you are running it. It is good to have the skills there in order to make it seem like something a bit more special. Not just, 'I'm level 3! time to go make me a pile of wonderous items, how much money do I have' but into 'I have gained a great deal of skill, with further training I shall attain the near exclusive ability to make item xxxx, perhaps I shall garner the training for the feat to enhance my abilities later on'
Xeriar
First Post
Potions, scrolls, 'charged' items are less expensive for 2nd-level and higher items.
Some rods and continuous items may be more or less expensive depending on what it was assigned by WotC. Skill Items are -significantly- more expensive above +5 bonuses (I got turned off to the +30 skill item trick).
Continuous items such as Ring of Protection are generally less expensive. Certain twinking situations have been removed (no item with +5 luck, +5 insight, +5 sacred, +5 resistance bonus to all saves...)
The generic slots allows more player customizability - maybe I should knock it to nine or something - but I like the number twelve
Some rods and continuous items may be more or less expensive depending on what it was assigned by WotC. Skill Items are -significantly- more expensive above +5 bonuses (I got turned off to the +30 skill item trick).
Continuous items such as Ring of Protection are generally less expensive. Certain twinking situations have been removed (no item with +5 luck, +5 insight, +5 sacred, +5 resistance bonus to all saves...)
The generic slots allows more player customizability - maybe I should knock it to nine or something - but I like the number twelve
What is wrong with an item +5 to a half dozen things? if you have the 200k exp it'll take to make it then more power to you
Really though, skills are not created equal ;/ if I used this system I'd probably give a discount to less usefull skills. Jump pretty well needs that +30 to do most anything useful, and a +30 to jump is probably about as useful as a +5 to diplomacy. Diplomacy generally has bigger, longer lasting effects and is used more often (at least in my campaign, much much much more often)
Looks good, I'll check through a few items tonight to see if the ones I think should be costed lower and higher remain close to where I think they belong, if so I may have to be stealing this
Really though, skills are not created equal ;/ if I used this system I'd probably give a discount to less usefull skills. Jump pretty well needs that +30 to do most anything useful, and a +30 to jump is probably about as useful as a +5 to diplomacy. Diplomacy generally has bigger, longer lasting effects and is used more often (at least in my campaign, much much much more often)
Looks good, I'll check through a few items tonight to see if the ones I think should be costed lower and higher remain close to where I think they belong, if so I may have to be stealing this
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