D&D 5E It's not the size, it's how you use it (Versatile Weapons)

[AverageCitizen]

Maybe I watch too many movies or read too much Wheel of Time, but I like the swordmaster archetype who uses a medium-sized blade in both hands. However, it seems under-served in 5e, since versatile weapons are a whole step down from two-handed weapons in terms of damage. I know the point is that they are, well, versatile, but I still wish I could have a duelist-style blademaster with a longsword.

While I am day-dreaming, the swashbuckling archetype seems under-served as well, since no one except rouges should use a rapier in melee without a shield (and even then as a fencing rogue I realized might as well just stick to sniping with my crossbow). Yes, I know that historically duelists used bucklers, and I know that is where the term came from, but I want my Errol Flynn, damnit, and I don't want to leave a bunch of utility or damage on the table to do it. Besides, real duelists often used daggers in the off-hand as well, and we don't get to do that, so the historical accuracy argument won't fly with me.

I almost wish the Duelist feat didn't work if you used a shield, that would solve both problems. But, sometimes I think about making a feat or a combat style to suit my shield-less fantasy.

What do you guys think? Am I missing something? Do you have any ideas or house-rules? Would anyone care to chime in about how they don't use feats or multi-classing, since it seems like we can't let a thread go without a roll-call on that?

 

[Azurewraith]

I think the issue is that weapons are all generic nothing separates them other than a damage dice and a range. As for 2h the long sword maybe allow strength and a half mod when 2h so it will do 1d10+str x1.5 could help add some damage. Perhaps create a parrying dagger granting +1to ac vs melee and maybe on a miss allow a disarm attempt as a reaction.

I am in the process of planning a whole set of weapon homebrew at some point in the near future making every weapon unique and usable in its own way mostly because i love daggers and well they suck in dnd.

 

[pkt77242]

I have played a Human fighter with Two Weapon fighting style and the dual wielder feat who uses two rapiers and it works pretty well. Not quite as powerful as a GW fighter with the GWM feat but few things are that powerful. I am enjoying my character and I don't feel underpowered.

With the Longsword if you wanted to use a dagger you could take the Dual Wielder feat and that would allow you to use the dagger and give you a +1 to AC

ETA: I don't think a person using the longsword and dagger combo with the DW feat would be underpowered.

 

[AverageCitizen]

I think the issue is that weapons are all generic nothing separates them other than a damage dice and a range. As for 2h the long sword maybe allow strength and a half mod when 2h so it will do 1d10+str x1.5 could help add some damage.

This is a bit problematic, because average damage for versatile weapons is only 1-1.5 behind their two-handed counterparts. Adding 1/2 strength would mean that versatile weapons would out-pace the larger versions pretty quickly, which seems to defeat the purpose.

Perhaps create a parrying dagger granting +1to ac vs melee and maybe on a miss allow a disarm attempt as a reaction.

I like the parrying dagger idea, but it seems like the defense bonus is pretty much the dual-wielder feat. Right now, daggers aren't allowed to be wielded with rapiers in any reasonable circumstance. We could just allow it, the only real problem is that it is slightly better than two short swords/scimitars, because if you ever decide to forgo your extra attack to use your bonus action elsewhere you get to deal more damage with the main attack.

 

[AverageCitizen]

I have played a Human fighter with Two Weapon fighting style and the dual wielder feat who uses two rapiers and it works pretty well. Not quite as powerful as a GW fighter with the GWM feat but few things are that powerful. I am enjoying my character and I don't feel underpowered.

With the Longsword if you wanted to use a dagger you could take the Dual Wielder feat and that would allow you to use the dagger and give you a +1 to AC

ETA: I don't think a person using the longsword and dagger combo with the DW feat would be underpowered.

I am after either a long-sword alone or a rapier alone. Sorry if I confused my point with details.

 

[Azurewraith]

This is a bit problematic, because average damage for versatile weapons is only 1-1.5 behind their two-handed counterparts. Adding 1/2 strength would mean that versatile weapons would out-pace the larger versions pretty quickly, which seems to defeat the purpose.

Your right on that one Just woken up didn't do the maths and just spouted ideas. What about an accuracy bonus the thought being is that well your using a weapon that is weighted for1handed use you use 2hands and well its suddenly a lot light so you can angle it for in between the armor maybe a +1-2?

 

[mach1.9pants]

Use this:

Archery
You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons.

To make this:

Versatile Fighting
You gain a +2 bonus to melee attack rolls you make with weapons having the Versatile property when it is used with two hands.

Swashbuckling without the Buckler aka Errol Flynning
You gain a +2 bonus to melee attack rolls you make with weapons having the Finesse property, as long as you other hand is empty and/or wielding a dagger*

*your choice depending what you are going for - empty hand or rapier & dagger.

 

[Azurewraith]

I think "Swashbuckling without the Buckler aka Errol Flynning" may be a bit to heavy on the word count anyway we could reduce that.

 

[Paraxis]

The reason Archery gives a +2 bonus to hit is to counteract the very common situation of firing past cover like other creatures including your allies, giving a +2 bonus to melee attacks for a fighting style seems overpowered to me.

 

[Bayonet]

The Mariner fighting style from the UA Waterborne might be close to what you're after.

Fighting Style: Mariner
The following new option can be selected by
fighters, paladins, and rangers for the Fighting
Style class feature.
Whether a buccaneer, an experienced sailor, or
a specially trained marine, a mariner can scale a
ship’s rigging and swim through choppy water
with ease. Adapted to wearing light and medium
armor, mariners can defend themselves without
relying on heavy armor or bulky shields. Most of
them thus wield two‐handed weapons or fight
with a pair of blades.

Mariner
As long as you are not wearing heavy armor or
using a shield, you have a swimming speed and a
climbing speed equal to your normal speed, and
you gain a +1 bonus to AC.

Mariner Design Notes
Fighting Style is a good way to introduce a specific flavor
of game play for multiple characters at once. In a seabased
campaign, you can expect lots of battles in the
water and on board ships. Swimming and climbing
speeds are very handy in such environments, but they
can also prove useful in other areas.
The mariner’s AC bonus comes with conditions, but it
plays into the restrictions a mariner must observe to
gain a swimming or climbing speed. In addition, a shipbased
campaign lends itself to fighters who wield
scimitars (representing a cutlass) and a dagger, and who
wear light armor. This specific AC bonus helps support
that character option.