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It's so frustrating

V

Varnevian D'Saer

Guest
I'm going to step up to the podium and state the obvious:

Sometimes other players do not play with you because they do not like your style of play.

Note: I did not say "don't like you" but read it as you will.

No one here is that bad and they should be able to find people to play with, but it won't be me.

I don't care for chars who argue about nit-picky OOC details of play pretending it's an IC discussion, or chars who make snarky comments about others, or chars who stand on the sidelines of combat and only step in when the main action is over, if then.

I also don't care for chars who are always in one trouble or another and need your help, or who you befriend once and then get bowled over with all the other chars run by that player, or who you befriend in one context and then want to help you with every other aspect of your life.

Flame-suit donned and ready.
 

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Drindin

First Post
If you've not anything nice to say, say nothing at all. That's all I will say...

Also, I've decided to pick the third option for the adventure that I'll be planning. Any volunteers to assist me in planning it?
 


Khalas

First Post
Thoughts on Entitlement to Interaction

To Drindin and some others complaining about feeling "left out":
Sorry, I have to agree with Ceres and Varnevian on this one.

You cannot force others to accept you, especially not by whining! You cannot force others to accept your character into their storyline at the drop of a hat, especially when, as you yourself admitted, their characters are not even fleeingly acquainted with your character much less friends with him.

You complain that others characters are ignoring your socially inept character, and demand someone interact with him even though he is a shy wallflower and hasn't got any friends! As if it's their fault or problem that your character is socially inept? I don't get you people. YOU control the character's personality, if you made him into a little mousy nobody, you have only yourself to blame. Play him differently.

One lesson I learned in roleplaying early on is that creating characters with disadvantages like "mortally shy" or "boorish" is not going to get you far. And the Mysterious Black-clad Stranger[tm] who just stands there glaring at people, shows no emotions and never speaks a word might look mysterious and cool as an NPC concept but frankly he sucks as a player character. How am I supposed to interact with someone when there's no hook to hang my interaction on?

True, such people do exist in real life (or in Hollywood movies). So what? Would you, in real life, expect people to flock to you in droves and fight each other for the privilege of hanging out with you if all you do is huddle in a corner or stutter and run away when they say hello?

That doesn't mean you have to play a loudmouthed party animal to get attention, especially if you the player feel you can't convincingly pull it off. But there are myriad ways of getting attention or friends. One surefire way NOT to make friends is to sit down at the bar and mutter "No-one wants to talk to me. This sucks." as I recently witnessed a newbie do, or to walk up to people who are chatting and try to intrude in their conversation by saying "Hey, man, what's up?". (Especially when you do it in netspeak. :eek: )

You claim it's interactive storytelling. Yes. This, however, does not mean you are entitled to everyone's devotion. "Interactive" means everyone has the same rights, and these rights do include saying "sorry, push off you creepy stalker" (albeit perhaps in nicer words).

All too often I have seen people shoulder their way into other players' affairs without invitation. It's annoying if you and some friends have mapped out a plotline and suddenly some total strangers jump in (in reaction to your private conversation on the other side of the virtual room) and proclaim, "Do not fear, for I, Lord Incredible, and my companion, Sister Mary Sue of Mercy, will solve your problem with a snap of our allmighty fingers! Here, take a wish spell! Aren't you happy?" No. Not if it means derailing my own storyline because a demi-god wandered by.

Part of the problem is that the ichat option was disabled that allowed players to create their own temporary rooms with whatever setting description they wanted, plus the option of only inviting or allowing certain characters in there. We don't have to discuss the reasons for that decision. It was made long ago. However, this means we're now destricted to just two freeform roleplaying rooms plus some smaller rooms like the garden which are not open all day round, and none of us can control who comes wandering through.

Try to see it from the perspective of the characters. CRT isn't Diablo Battlenet, where characters are simply stand-ins for players wanting to slay some virtual monsters and anyone's invited to tag along as long as they're high-level enough to survive. CRT and Emporium are public places for characters, not public forums for players.

Let's say it like this: If you and your friend/parent/therapist stood in the subway discussing a problem you have, what would you think if all of sudden people you've never seen before offered you their advice, unwanted help or invited themselves to come along to your house to "fix" the little quarrel between you and your friend/parent/spouse? :uh-huh: Get away from me, you meddlesome perverts!

CRT is a tavern. Or do you routinely accost strangers in bars?) I mean, yes, some people do, but then usually the words "sexual harassment" or "drunken joviality" feature in there somewhere.)

Of course, the downside is that people might stand by the sidelines seemingly unwilling to help when someone is in trouble. Eh, just like in real life, no? The thing is, in the past some of my characters did try to interfere in Other People's Problems[tm] without having been asked for assistance. I did not get a thank-you, rather the contrary, and I understand why.

I also hate it when players trying to coerce my character into dropping everything he's doing and come to the aid of their poor ailing drama queen character who just stumbled into the tavern bleeding and crying "Oh woe is me!". Especially if once the problem is dealt with another one just pops up from no-where. Stuff like that doesn't ensure my attention, just my annoyance.

Drindin, if the only story you are happy with is one that features your character and all the other poor outcasts just so that they don't have to feel "uselessly shoved aside", I'm not sure there's a solution.

---
[Note: I am posting this as "Khalas" because although that character is long retired and though I've been away from CRT for a long time, more people probably remember me under this name tag than as one of the other characters I'm sporadically playing these days.]
 

Drindin

First Post
Jared: Yes, he's a shy wall flower.

Backstrom: Is not shy, is not boorish. In fact, he's rather friendly. Friends: 1.

Robert: Again, is rather friendly. Has a few friends.

Drindin: He's stoic, he's not supposed to have feelings. I never expected him to have friends. But then, it's not him I'm complaining about.

And, I can see where you're coming from.

However, what I'm basically getting at here is this:

I'm simply making a massive story line, because I've seen some really good character concepts, not neccessairly only mine, shoved aside for various reasons. Many of them are newbies. This story that I"m planning is going to be BIG. Massive! In size, not neccessairily in popularity.

And, I've also noticed, on site it's virtually impossible to make new friends because most characters tend to keep to there little cliques, (I know what you're going to say: Would you talk to a complete stranger? And I just want you to remember: You and your friends, and your parents were, at one time, complete strangers to each other, so my answer to that is: Yes.)

I have my share of dark-broody-characters, my most favourite being my Namesake, Drindin. I never expect characters like that to end up having a whole bunch of friends, and for the most part, he doesn't. (It's even harder for him now, seeing as he's a ghost...)

Then why am I making the adventure? One, cause I feel a bit left out... all these games going on around me, none of them am I allowed to join for various reasons, two, for other who feel the same way, and three, Because I Can.
 

Drindin

First Post
Re: Thoughts on Entitlement to Interaction

Khalas said:
All too often I have seen people shoulder their way into other players' affairs without invitation. It's annoying if you and some friends have mapped out a plotline and suddenly some total strangers jump in (in reaction to your private conversation on the other side of the virtual room) and proclaim, "Do not fear, for I, Lord Incredible, and my companion, Sister Mary Sue of Mercy, will solve your problem with a snap of our allmighty fingers! Here, take a wish spell! Aren't you happy?" No. Not if it means derailing my own storyline because a demi-god wandered by.

Hmm... funny, the two times that I offered help in a story line, it was done in such a manner as to not disrupt the story line, as I was simply going on with what was the idea, and still...

Try to see it from the perspective of the characters. CRT isn't Diablo Battlenet, where characters are simply stand-ins for players wanting to slay some virtual monsters and anyone's invited to tag along as long as they're high-level enough to survive. CRT and Emporium are public places for characters, not public forums for players.

Okay, I will.

Robert_olidamarite: I"m seeing people oppressed. I don't like that, I should help them.
Backstrom: Having been captured at one time myself, and forced to do things I didn't like.... should I not help them?

Let's say it like this: If you and your friend/parent/therapist stood in the subway discussing a problem you have, what would you think if all of sudden people you've never seen before offered you their advice, unwanted help or invited themselves to come along to your house to "fix" the little quarrel between you and your friend/parent/spouse? :uh-huh: Get away from me, you meddlesome perverts!

I've never had a character do that.
However, I have had characters offer healing...

Think of it this way: You're walking down the street, and you see a homeless person getting beat up. Would you just walk by without doing anything? Or would you try and find a way to help them? That's where my characters are often quick to jump in.

CRT is a tavern. Or do you routinely accost strangers in bars? (I mean, yes, some people do, but then usually the words "sexual harassment" or "drunken joviality" feature in there somewhere.)

When JR. Tolkein met CS. Lewis, it was in a bar. Plenty of friends meet in bars.

Of course, the downside is that people might stand by the sidelines seemingly unwilling to help when someone is in trouble. Eh, just like in real life, no? The thing is, in the past some of my characters did try to interfere in Other People's Problems[tm] without having been asked for assistance. I did not get a thank-you, rather the contrary, and I understand why.

Yes, because, you know, this is the real world. And in the real world, we can cast spells, can ride dragons, or ascend to god-hood by turning into a lich and sucking out the powers of our followers, and we routeinly kill things so we can gain that second level of Expert that we always wanted.

But, if you are going to work with parrallels: in the real world, when some body is choking, is hurt in an accident, or whatever... would you just sit by and do nothing? I wouldn't, I'm not supposed to. I have a level A in first aid, and I'm supposed to use it until the ambulance arrives.

I also hate it when players trying to coerce my character into dropping everything he's doing and come to the aid of their poor ailing drama queen character who just stumbled into the tavern bleeding and crying "Oh woe is me!". Especially if once the problem is dealt with another one just pops up from no-where. Stuff like that doesn't ensure my attention, just my annoyance.

If it bugs you that much, simply go to a different room, acting as though you haven't seen the attention-sucking character.

Drindin, if the only story you are happy with is one that features your character and all the other poor outcasts just so that they don't have to feel "uselessly shoved aside", I'm not sure there's a solution.

I don't seem to recall saying those are the ONLY characters allowed in it. I do plan on allowing other people in it. Hence why this has to be so very large. I plan to make it a story line that, would not just threaten a small select group of people (which seem to be most story lines), rather everybody who goes onto the chat site (not saying everyone has to co-operate, only those whose characters would do so, rather than being apathetic and thinking 'it only happens to other people, never to me')


That said, yes, I have plenty of socially inept characters, but not as character flaws... simply because it's nearly impossible to make connections on-site unless you've been here for at least a year, or are a wizo.

So, you've made your point, I've made mine. Let's leave at that, and we can both leave well enough alone. You can go on playing your characters in whatever story line they're involved in, and I'll continue planning this story line. Then, everybody's happy and we live happily ever after, the end.
 


Drindin

First Post
Good for him. He can have a cookie.

But, can I just ask... what are your goals here?

I'm making this adventure so that I, and anybody else who wants to, can have some fun, and rest with the knowledge that, for once, their character is involved in a plotline, but, you've been making it very hard for me to do that, constantly ranting about how I'm not going about this the right way, or my motives for doing it are wrong.

I've been on the site for at least a year... maybe two, and have been involved in this many adventures: 0.

Wow, good for me, I feel so accomplished. Even when I do have friends with my characters, I am total unable to actually get myself involved in any of the countless big plots that occur.

So, if your motives were to try and de-rail my adventure, good luck, it's not going to happen.

If you're trying to make me feel bad about making this thread, congradulations, have a cookie.
 

Q

Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai

Guest
Well, to tell truth, i have points some of which would go for Drindin's case, and others that would go against them. That's likely to get me stuck betuin the two factions, each of which thinking i'm the enemy... no, i don't want that, so i'll keep most of my points shut, and only voice two, which seem perfectly neutral:

1
Drindin, did any of my chars, or i as a DM, ever shove you aside? I belive not, but if you ever feel i do, please PM me to turn my attention to it; I have daffinately no intention to shove you aside.

2
Count me in. I'm glad you chose the third option {i didn't really like the other two}, and i'll be glad to help you develop if you need me, or just play my char if you don't. I'm yet to choose which char to use, and will probably ask your advice about it, once we know a little more about the plot.

PS:
Errr... why did the adventure "The Wand'rings of Drindin" stop? I'm probably a jerk for asking it now, after the char i plaied there is already moved to another adventure on the boards {i did wait for a couple of months before moving him}, but still... besides, i can always make an IC trick to switch chars.
 

Drindin

First Post
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai said:
Well, to tell truth, i have points some of which would go for Drindin's case, and others that would go against them. That's likely to get me stuck betuin the two factions, each of which thinking i'm the enemy... no, i don't want that, so i'll keep most of my points shut, and only voice two, which seem perfectly neutral:

1
Drindin, did any of my chars, or i as a DM, ever shove you aside? I belive not, but if you ever feel i do, please PM me to turn my attention to it; I have daffinately no intention to shove you aside.

I'm talking about mostly on the chat-site, and I like you for the fact that you've never shut me out of any of your board-based-games (even if the initial one never got finished...)


2
Count me in. I'm glad you chose the third option {i didn't really like the other two}, and i'll be glad to help you develop if you need me, or just play my char if you don't. I'm yet to choose which char to use, and will probably ask your advice about it, once we know a little more about the plot.

Consider yourself counted in!

PS:
Errr... why did the adventure "The Wand'rings of Drindin" stop? I'm probably a jerk for asking it now, after the char i plaied there is already moved to another adventure on the boards {i did wait for a couple of months before moving him}, but still... besides, i can always make an IC trick to switch chars.

I'm not sure... it just, kinda died so I didn't bother finishing it. We can assume that all characters involved succeeded and lived happily ever after... except for Drindind, but that's him for ya...
 

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