DarkCrisis
Spreading holiday cheer.
Kid who plays the fighter told me today he likes that its one save and not multiple saves like in 5th ed because it mean's that your single roll/save means more.
The older kid is playing a Fighter (as he usually does) and he told me he really likes that combat comes down to AC instead of HP. He likes that he can turn the tide of battle in a swing or two of his axe. He feels more “useful.” He likes that it was more deadly. And I agreed, to much HP/healing etc bogs it all down.
Sure. But the other thing is that all the reflexive responses are just convincing me that the people responding never played nearly as much 1e/2e as I did. I've got probably 2000+ hours of playing 1e/2e as a thief, and the class is only really balanced between about 1200 and 2000 xp when you are second level and get 2HD and other classes are still just 1st level. At practically every other point, you are weaker than every other class. It's this recognition that the thief was useless that lead to all the radical improvements that gave us the 3e Rogue.
AD&D 2e was my introduction to Dungeons & Dragons, so I have some nostalgia for it. My longest campaign (before I became a Killer DM) was in that system. I'm glad to read new players are enjoying it and that it's reinvigorated a passion for DMing in the OP.
I just can't imagine going back to it, personally. Some sort of 2.999 edition would be cool - like if it still had the traditional approach to the game with a little better balanced classes, more unified mechanics, no THAC0, etc.
Which OSR games have you found that updated Thieves to be more balanced? I've been thinking of running some 2e, and was planning on reinventing the class myself...Thieves were always sad in TSR editions of the game, alas. They were mostly playable as a multiclass option.
Definitely one of the things I appreciate about WotC's tenure has been upgrading Rogues to genuinely useful. And I appreciate how some of the OSR games also make them more powerful and useful than TSR did.
I played for quite a while in an OSR Discord server over the last couple of years with a bunch of younger players, including a few teens and some college age. Definitely one of the cool things was seeing how younger folks could also enjoy OSE and older, more stripped-down rules.
That depends on what you think a "decent chance" is. Of your 60 starting discretionary points, you can put 30 in a skill. The base for, say, Find/Remove Traps is 5%, so that raises it to 35%. Barring Kits (I'm not sure which ones grant a bonus to this off-hand), only an 18 Dexterity increases this (by 5%); otherwise, you need to be a Dwarf (+15%), Gnome (+10%), or Halfling (+5%). Just with the PHB, it's impossible to get more than a coin flip at level 1. Which given how frail the Thief is, could very well mean a 50% chance not to die upon encountering a trap.I don't think thieves were really all that bad in 2e, being able to focus your skill points meant you could get a decent chance right out the gate of a couple of skills. However, I think that I'd probably drop the class altogether a d make their skills into proficiencies like in that Gothic earth version of ravenloft. I'd probably also turn backstab into a proficiency as it is in ACKS. This way, you could just use the fighter and give them thief skills if they feel the need for them.
I guess you could still keep the thief, but make them able to trade in their normal skills for different rogue proficiencies so that they could specialise in different areas, like a master of disguise, a burglar, or the typical adventuring thief.
I was thinking of 5 Torches Deep specifically. Lamentations of the Flame Princess also does a pretty good job with their Specialist class.Which OSR games have you found that updated Thieves to be more balanced? I've been thinking of running some 2e, and was planning on reinventing the class myself...
That's not a 2E thing, it's a D&D thing, regardless of edition.If 2e suffers from anything, it's that what it is, and what people wanted it to be, were never in sync. I know a lot of people who wanted D&D to be a game where they could make any character concept they want and have fun with it. The reality is, though, there are things that work in 2e. And things that work well in 2e. And a lot of things that just...don't.