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D&D 5E Jeremy Crawford Discusses Details on Custom Origins

I did not say anything about your assessment but was checking my understanding of the rules change.

it’s MY assessment that some of this is driven by concern about species ‘equality’ ME not you, but was incredulous if the remedy is to make anything goes custom races better than current packages.

struck me as ironic.

At this point why have any packages at all? Just let everyone choose a la cart.

I bet this is the new skills and powers (whatever it was that I skipped) being incrementally introduced.

not bad faith disingenuous anything. Just expressing surprise and finding it ironic furthering my belief this was a reactionary and poorly thought out change.
OH! That makes a lot more sense. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

And yes, although I am sure it was not intentional, it seems the effort to not pidgeon-hole a race, and therefore make a race less desirable for certain classes, has made it, it appears, so that some races are just flat out better than all the others. Not better at some things, but better at all things. That is a bad change if it ends up being true.
Again, this is what has been said in multiple thread over the forums (not only this one). Even the rest rule has been poorly thought. You are both right in your conclusions.

My opinion only: when the first focus is not the game itself, this is the kind of thing you necessarily end up with.

I think 5e already has a fine legacy. There is so much world building my group can explore. Dozens upon dozens of new characters to explore.

however, if this is the direction things are going, I will be skipping some books in the futureWill see. There is enough in tashas to tempt me.
Will have to thumb through at a game store to know for sure.

I have enough with the core books and Volo’s, mordenkainen’s, Xanathar’s to last a long time...
The only things that has a redeemable feature in this book are the subclasses. Even then, some of them are simply reprints from other books. Magic items? We have aplenty already. New spells? So far, we have had quite a good amount. But more can't be bad isn't it? (sarcasm is off the roof in the last sentence...)
 

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Chaosmancer

Legend
I feel your pain. Save early, save often! I frequently do a Ctrl-A (highlight all text), Ctrl-C (copy all text) before trying to save my post, just in case something goes awry. It it does I can start a new post and paste it in.

I think you missed the custom race that Jeremy talked about in the video. This is not a race that can just move around their stats, this is a NEW race option that lets you make whatever you want. Add +2 to a stat, add +1 to a stat, take darkvision or a proficiency, and get a feat. This is what allows you to get to a +3 stat bonus at first level.

Ah, I see, I did not watch the video, but I have a guess here. I think he was talking about a static feat, and in that case, this is again not overpowered.

Let us look at elves for a second. +2/+1. Then they get 4 weapons. That is the Weapon Master Feat. The Wood Elves get part of Skulker under specific circumstances.

Tieflings get magic similar to Magic Initiate.

Mountain Dwarves get at least one tool, 4 weapons, and two armor proficiencies, which could be seen as Weapon Master, Lightly Armored and Moderately Armored.

So, if Jeremy meant to give the player any option for choosing a new feat? I'd agree with you. If he meant you as the DM pick a static feat for this race, then less overpowered, because a Feat is about the worth a race or subrace's abilities anyways.

And I generally agree with all this. The factors you list probably are more important than the (relatively) minor stat bonuses. But if they are minor and not that big a deal, why not keep them for flavor reasons? Elves are graceful, get a +2 to Dex. Not a big deal though, you can put an 8 in Dex (or even lower if you roll stats) and you are no better than average or worse. It is just a flavor element for Elf.

But yeah, I'm not screaming about the bonuses. It's not that big a deal to me. I just liked them being static a bit more. Not going to break the game for me either way.

It is just in the player sweet spot.

Yeah, a 5% variance amongst a population is minor from a world-building perspective. But, it is a big deal to the player who had to make the choice that put them under par. Because 16 is par. 16 is the expected scores of a 1st level character by default.

And by changing this, we are more likely to see more people exploring more combos. While at the same time, not really loosing anything major on the world building and lore front.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
What in the literally @#^$#%@ hell. I am going to tear out this stupid anti-virus software. It cuts off my access to ENworld mid-post and erases the entire hours worth of #$^%$#@! typing I just did.

So, round two. Likely with less detail.
Ouch! That sucks. I've been there and it isn't a happy place. :(
2) There is no such thing as a "non-setting specific dwarf" in this context. Not only are both the Mountain and Hill dwarves called out as being 1 to 1 related to specific setting dwarves in the PHB, but they are not given any distinguishing features that make sense for them being seperated. The way Hill Dwarves are described as having "keen senses, deep intuition, and remarkable resilience" is something that could be easily applied to any dwarf. They could be born to two mountain dwarf parents, or even trained to have those traits.
There is. Despite the claim that the core setting is FR, there is really almost nothing FR about the PHB, DMG and MM. It's like the silly claim that Greyhawk was the 3e core setting.

The PHB Dwarves are designed to be dropped into whatever setting people want, or to be changed to conform to other settings. The Sword Coast altered the PHB Dwarf fluff to conform to that setting. Where it differs from the PHB is where specific beats general.

Yes, Hill Dwarves "keen senses, deep intuition..." is why as a subrace they get +1 to wisdom. Mountain Dwarves as a subrace are NOT like that, so they do not get +1 to wisdom. As you not, though, an individual Mountain Dwarf could be born with keen senses and deep intuition, and that would be reflected by rolling/buying a high wisdom.
3) The PHB does not tell us where they live. The only way you could argue that is to say that it comes directly from the names. But even that is circumstantial at best, and since mountains and foothills are definitionally next to each other, I do not see any way that that could be used to describe enough of a cultural drift and shift to show the differences we are talking about.
It does not specifically state where they live, but the name pretty clearly implies hills for Hill Dwarves and mountains for Mountain Dwarves. Hills can also be found without any mountains around. If you look at real world cultures, there are varying cultures just a few miles away from each other. If you go further into dwellers of different terrain types, the cultural differences are profound. That one type of dwarf would leave the mountains and go live elsewhere with a different focus on life, to the extent that they develop different racial abilities, means that they have a significantly different culture.
4) Most important. You are missing the point I was trying to make. The point is not about a single sub-race, but at looking at the sub-races side by side. The PHB explicitly tells us that the Gold Dwarves and the Hill Dwarves are the same. Yet, they hold opposing views and ways. Same with the Mountain Dwarves and the Shield Dwarves.
The PHB tells us that they are different. The get very different racial abilities, which means that they cannot possibly be the same. In fact, it goes out of the way to tell us which abilities both get for their similarities and then goes into their differences.
This was the original point I was making. We cannot say that "Hill Dwarf" culture gives us the +1 Wisdom, because between the Hill Dwarves and the Gold dwarves we have opposing cultures, but the same score. This is the contradiction, that taken together, they do not match close enough to justify being the same race, and yet they are.
It is not a contradiction. I've already shown how what you call contradiction can be easily reconciled together. Even there was a contradiction, 1) specific beats general, so the Gold Dwarf lore wins, and 2) the Gold Dwarf lore also has aspects that justify the +1 wisdom in a different way.
That is a poor reading of the test. Full Quote: "Gold dwarves who interact with other races (including shield dwarves) tend to be suspicious, taciturn, and secretive, and especially distrustful of anyone who doesn’t show outward signs of wealth."

They are suspicious of everyone, and even more suspicious of those who do not flaunt their wealth. So, sure, they may be less suspicious of a wealthy merchant decked out in gold, but less just brings them back down to the baseline level they treat all outsiders including other dwarves with.

Also, if you are suspicious and secretive with people, it is because you fear the worst. That is the opposite of optimism, which is hoping for the best. Maybe they can be optimistic about other things, but according to Mordenkainen's tome speaking specifically about the dwarves of the Forgotten Realms, Gold Dwarves are reacting with pessimism to every other race of beings they encounter. Which does not tend to make one a optimist
So you can be both suspicious and optimistic. I am what you would call an optimistic realist, just like those dwarves. I am realistic and understand that basic human nature will almost always result in X, but despite my suspicions and distrust of that nature, I still optimistically hold out hope that this might be one of the exceptions. Again, what you are looking at as in opposition is not really in opposition at all.
And this still makes me chuckle. To rerewrite your first sentence without the pronouns. "[Mountain Dwarves] are slow to trust, unlike Mountain Dwarves who are slower to trust."

See, these two races are so similiar, you can't even tell when I switch from talking about one to talking about the other. Because Shield Dwarves are Mountain Dwarves, not Hill Dwarves.

They are such similiar cultures though, it is trivially easy to confuse them. And I'm not sure blaming bad writing is in any way a good escape hatch from this.
That just made me chuckle as well. However, the mix-up was due to rushing early in the morning right after I woke up and before I had to do my morning chores and head to work. ;)
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
Ouch! That sucks. I've been there and it isn't a happy place. :(

Yeah, I tried calling the tech support people, and their only advice was to turn off the anti-virus. And, I've had the anti-virus for most of the year (bought it the same time I got this new computer) so... not sure why this month everything has been going wrong.

There is. Despite the claim that the core setting is FR, there is really almost nothing FR about the PHB, DMG and MM. It's like the silly claim that Greyhawk was the 3e core setting.

The PHB Dwarves are designed to be dropped into whatever setting people want, or to be changed to conform to other settings. The Sword Coast altered the PHB Dwarf fluff to conform to that setting. Where it differs from the PHB is where specific beats general.

Yes, Hill Dwarves "keen senses, deep intuition..." is why as a subrace they get +1 to wisdom. Mountain Dwarves as a subrace are NOT like that, so they do not get +1 to wisdom. As you not, though, an individual Mountain Dwarf could be born with keen senses and deep intuition, and that would be reflected by rolling/buying a high wisdom.

"Designed to be dropped into whatever setting people want" Also, they are specifically called out to be the Dwarves of both of those settings. So, saying they aren't those dwarves when they specifically are, seems to be shifty.

And the Sword Coast can't contradict the PHB, because the PHB says nothing. Mordenkainens, which came out at least a year after Sword Coast, is the one contradicting it.

And, lets just ask the question you won't answer. Why do Hill Dwarves have "keen senses, deep intuition, and greater resilience" than mountain dwarves? The PHB doesn't tell us. It states that they are and we just have to guess why.

People proposed culture, but this applies to two different cultures that are radically different, Gold Dwarves are much closer in attitude and culture to Greyhawk's Mountain Dwarves. So, how do we explain this?

You say that a Mountain Dwarves could be rolled to be Hill Dwarves.... but doesn't that completely prove my point? A Mountain Dwarf with high Wisdom isn't breaking any lore, he isn't destroying the status quo. And, I could just as easily represent him with the Hill Dwarf stats. After all, if he was a cleric or Fighter, he gets the mountain Dwarf armor anyways. Just missing a little strength, which maybe I can just roll.

It does not specifically state where they live, but the name pretty clearly implies hills for Hill Dwarves and mountains for Mountain Dwarves. Hills can also be found without any mountains around. If you look at real world cultures, there are varying cultures just a few miles away from each other. If you go further into dwellers of different terrain types, the cultural differences are profound. That one type of dwarf would leave the mountains and go live elsewhere with a different focus on life, to the extent that they develop different racial abilities, means that they have a significantly different culture.

Real life also has people who hold the same culture despite being seperated by dozens or hundreds of miles. So, is the two mile trek down the mountain really enough? Also, while human cultures do change, they change over generations. Over the course of 100 years, we have 5 generations. Dwarves might have two. That is a much slower rate of change, and would make that sort of culture drift much less likely.

And sure, you could find hills without mountains. But do Hill Dwarves live there? I mean deserts have hills. Do Hill Dwarves live in the desert? Maybe they live in the Tundra, those have hills. Forests have hills too.

In fact, I think those hill dwarves would have a bigger difference in culture than you would find between Mountain Dwarves living in the Mountains and Hill Dwarves living in the foothills of those mountains.

The PHB tells us that they are different. The get very different racial abilities, which means that they cannot possibly be the same. In fact, it goes out of the way to tell us which abilities both get for their similarities and then goes into their differences.

Aw, infallible logic. They are different because they are different. Solid logic.... Especially since the PHB says nothing of the sort. In fact, it says the opposite. Wanna know how I know?

Because under the entry of Hill Dwarves, it says that in the Forgotten Realms Hill Dwarves are called Gold Dwarves. It specifically says they are the same.

Oh! You might have gotten confused again, mixing up Gold Dwarves and Mountain Dwarves, which are supposed to be different, but they are described the exact same way in Mordenkainens. Okay, that is unfair it isn't "exact" they are both just xenophobic shut-ins who fight underground wars against dark threats to their livelihoods and think of themselves as the true dwarves. But it they don't copy and paste the lore.

Oh, and the Shield Dwarves and Hill Dwarves are their more adventurous, surface dwelling cousins who make closer bonds with the other races, while building more empires instead of enduring in the old fortresses.

Then you just have to remember that Shields are Mountains mechanically, while being Hills culturally. I mean, that isn't too confusing at all right? Clearly delinated differences between... well, I guess the mechanics are one type of difference and the culture is the opposite sort of difference. Which kind of blurs the lines.

It is not a contradiction. I've already shown how what you call contradiction can be easily reconciled together. Even there was a contradiction, 1) specific beats general, so the Gold Dwarf lore wins, and 2) the Gold Dwarf lore also has aspects that justify the +1 wisdom in a different way.

No Max, this is not a specific beats general situation.

The PHB says that these two races use the same mechanics.
Greyhawk Hill Dwarves have one set of lore and culture.
Forgotten Realm Gold Dwarves have a different set of lore and culture.

The Hill dwarves culture and the Gold Dwarves culture are opposed. They have the culture of the other type of dwarf (Shield and Mountain respectively).

Let me show this in a math equation.

PHB claims that a=b

Greyhawk says that a=1
Forgotten Realms says that b=2

Therefore either 1=2, or the PHB is wrong and a=/=b

And, even worse, Mordenkainen's says that FR b=2, while Sword Coast says that FR b=1. And, I have no idea which set of lore to believe. Because, despite Sword Coast being about FR, it was not written by WoTC and it is in direct contradiction of newer material. So, was this a retcon? A mistake? Or is this just a massively confused issue that no one seemed to notice?

So you can be both suspicious and optimistic. I am what you would call an optimistic realist, just like those dwarves. I am realistic and understand that basic human nature will almost always result in X, but despite my suspicions and distrust of that nature, I still optimistically hold out hope that this might be one of the exceptions. Again, what you are looking at as in opposition is not really in opposition at all.

That isn't what those words mean Max. And, I would have to say that if you really were optimistic, you would not act secretive and with suspicion. If you truly believed that "this time might be different" then you would act as though it were.

They don't. They act suspicious and secretive with everybody. That isn't realistic optimism (which frankly is just pessimism or realism with a shiny coat of paint).
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
"Designed to be dropped into whatever setting people want" Also, they are specifically called out to be the Dwarves of both of those settings. So, saying they aren't those dwarves when they specifically are, seems to be shifty.
So is saying that I'm saying that dwarves aren't dwarves. We're discussing subraces, not the race itself. Hill Dwarves are different from Mountain Dwarves.
And, lets just ask the question you won't answer. Why do Hill Dwarves have "keen senses, deep intuition, and greater resilience" than mountain dwarves? The PHB doesn't tell us. It states that they are and we just have to guess why.
It doesn't matter why. That's 5e for you. Here's a situation, now make a ruling for why that's so at your table.
People proposed culture, but this applies to two different cultures that are radically different, Gold Dwarves are much closer in attitude and culture to Greyhawk's Mountain Dwarves. So, how do we explain this?
We don't, because one is not relevant to the other. Settings are specifically designed to alter the lore of races. How Greyhawk's dwarves are describes is irrelevant to the PHB and FR dwarves. How the PHB dwarves are describes is irrelevant to the Greyhawk and FR dwarves. And how the FR dwarves are describes is irrelevant to the Greyhawk and PHB dwarves.
You say that a Mountain Dwarves could be rolled to be Hill Dwarves.... but doesn't that completely prove my point? A Mountain Dwarf with high Wisdom isn't breaking any lore, he isn't destroying the status quo. And, I could just as easily represent him with the Hill Dwarf stats. After all, if he was a cleric or Fighter, he gets the mountain Dwarf armor anyways. Just missing a little strength, which maybe I can just roll.
I didn't say one could be rolled to be the other. I said that a mountain dwarf can have keen senses and intuition as represented by a 15 wisdom.
Real life also has people who hold the same culture despite being seperated by dozens or hundreds of miles. So, is the two mile trek down the mountain really enough? Also, while human cultures do change, they change over generations. Over the course of 100 years, we have 5 generations. Dwarves might have two. That is a much slower rate of change, and would make that sort of culture drift much less likely.

And sure, you could find hills without mountains. But do Hill Dwarves live there? I mean deserts have hills. Do Hill Dwarves live in the desert? Maybe they live in the Tundra, those have hills. Forests have hills too.

In fact, I think those hill dwarves would have a bigger difference in culture than you would find between Mountain Dwarves living in the Mountains and Hill Dwarves living in the foothills of those mountains.
Doesn't matter. They have different cultures and those cultures result in the stats that they are given.
No Max, this is not a specific beats general situation.

The PHB says that these two races use the same mechanics.
Greyhawk Hill Dwarves have one set of lore and culture.
Forgotten Realm Gold Dwarves have a different set of lore and culture.

The Hill dwarves culture and the Gold Dwarves culture are opposed. They have the culture of the other type of dwarf (Shield and Mountain respectively).

Let me show this in a math equation.

PHB claims that a=b

Greyhawk says that a=1
Forgotten Realms says that b=2

Therefore either 1=2, or the PHB is wrong and a=/=b
This is EXACTLY a specific beats general situation. Your conclusion is flawed, because the specific settings alter what the PHB sets forth. There is no 1=2, because the PHB is subservient to the specific exceptions created by the individual settings.
That isn't what those words mean Max. And, I would have to say that if you really were optimistic, you would not act secretive and with suspicion. If you truly believed that "this time might be different" then you would act as though it were.
That's false. I know, because that's the way I am. Optimistic =/= stupid. You are trying to pigeonhole me into a version of Lawful Stupid and I'm not going to have it. I can be suspicious and untrusting, yet still hope for the best. See that? HOPE for the best, which is optimistic. Optimism doesn't require belief that the best will happen.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Brand New?

Half-Elves have been one of the best races in the game since the start of 5e.
Yeah. Half-elves are already literally better at doing anything Dragonborn might want to do. Skills and extra stats, advantage on saves vs. charmed and immunity to sleep, and darkvision? And Dragonborn gets, by comparison, a piddly-nothing breath weapon (that only recharges on a short rest, mind) and resistance to a single element? Wow, I'm so underwhelmed.

I won't deny that I'm a huge fan of Dragonborn, so seeing them comparatively crapped on compared to pretty much every alternative hurts more. But the balance of race design has never been particularly rigorous in 5e. Letting any race have any stat bonuses is still a step in the right direction, though I absolutely think people should have to choose EITHER "+2 to any one, +1 to any other, proficiency, feat" or "default package, no changes," not mixing the two. I agree that that is a boneheaded move because just adding versatility to the equation while keeping EVERYTHING else exactly the same doesn't actually fix the problem, it just makes the problem a little harder to see.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I won't deny that I'm a huge fan of Dragonborn, so seeing them comparatively crapped on compared to pretty much every alternative hurts more. But the balance of race design has never been particularly rigorous in 5e. Letting any race have any stat bonuses is still a step in the right direction, though I absolutely think people should have to choose EITHER "+2 to any one, +1 to any other, proficiency, feat" or "default package, no changes," not mixing the two. I agree that that is a boneheaded move because just adding versatility to the equation while keeping EVERYTHING else exactly the same doesn't actually fix the problem, it just makes the problem a little harder to see.
There is no problem to fix. A lot of people wanted more versatility. Lack of what they prefer doesn't equate to a problem, though.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
So is saying that I'm saying that dwarves aren't dwarves. We're discussing subraces, not the race itself. Hill Dwarves are different from Mountain Dwarves.

sigh

I know we are discussing the subraces, that is all I'm discussing.

It doesn't matter why. That's 5e for you. Here's a situation, now make a ruling for why that's so at your table.

So, if it doesn't matter why, then it doesn't matter if we change it?

I mean, we have the game designers telling us that it won't break the math of the game. The reason why the races have their bonuses doesn't matter. So... why defend it? There is no reason, so there is no reason to keep it.

We don't, because one is not relevant to the other. Settings are specifically designed to alter the lore of races. How Greyhawk's dwarves are describes is irrelevant to the PHB and FR dwarves. How the PHB dwarves are describes is irrelevant to the Greyhawk and FR dwarves. And how the FR dwarves are describes is irrelevant to the Greyhawk and PHB dwarves.

Max, you keep missing the point. To a degree that is astounding.

The PHB Tells us that these two races are mechanically identical. People claimed that they had their bonuses do to culture. The sources we have tell us that those races are culturally incompatible.

I don't care that you think setting lore is irrelevant, that is not the point. What we are finding in this discussion is that it was not in fact decided that Hill Dwarves would get a +1 Wisdom due to their culture. It was decided that they would get a +1 Wisdom, and then we would have to jam in any explanation that sort of fit for why.


So, at this stage, we seem to have two options for going forward

1) Admit that culture has nothing to do with why a race has the bonuses it has. Because we can demonstrate with official material that cultures that are very dissimiliar were given the same treatment.

2) Admit that since culture is supposed to matter, and the current system is doing a poor job of emulating that, that Tasha's rules will allow us to get closer to the designers intended design of the subraces.


oh wait, false dichotomy. We can also just keep endlessly telling each other they are wrong until we spiral this thread completely to death. That doesn't actually move us forward, but it is an option.

Doesn't matter. They have different cultures and those cultures result in the stats that they are given.

Then why are the same stats given to different cultures? THAT is the point I keep trying to hammer in, and you keep saying that setting lore can change between settings. That is true, and also irrelevant.

This is EXACTLY a specific beats general situation. Your conclusion is flawed, because the specific settings alter what the PHB sets forth. There is no 1=2, because the PHB is subservient to the specific exceptions created by the individual settings.

Okay, I think I've got it.


You don't believe that Gold Dwarves use the "Hill Dwarf" mechanics. You think that the PHB is lying to us, and that Gold Dwarves actually use a different set of mechanics.

Because that is literally the only thing the PHB is telling us in this scenario. The mechanical +1 Wisdom dwarf is both the Hill Dwarf of Greyhawk and the Gold Dwarf of FR. Since specific beats general, and the PHB is subservient to the lore, and that somehow frickin matters in this, the only thing that could mean is that the +1 Wisdom Dwarf is not the Gold dwarf.

So, is it the mechanical Mountain Dwarf? That is what I've been saying. So then I would be right.

Or, is there a specific FR product that gives us a third and fourth dwarven statblock that replaces the Mountain and Hill dwarf mechanics?

Because somehow specific beats general applies, so where are the new mechanics that I can use to play the FR specific dwarves? Because if they are the PHB dwarves, mechanically, then I'm right, and specific beats general does not apply. Like I've said.

That's false. I know, because that's the way I am. Optimistic =/= stupid. You are trying to pigeonhole me into a version of Lawful Stupid and I'm not going to have it. I can be suspicious and untrusting, yet still hope for the best. See that? HOPE for the best, which is optimistic. Optimism doesn't require belief that the best will happen.

I am not going to argue definitions with you Max. I have found greater success breaking steel walls with my bare hands. So, this will be my last word on this part of the issue.

Optimism (noun): "hopefulness and confidence about the future or the successful outcome of something."

Hope and Confidence.

If you are still suspicious and untrusting, then you lack confidence in your hopes. The reason Optimism is not "Hopefulism" is because it requires that component of confidence, by definition. "Realistic Optimism" is just hope, no confidence, therefore it is not Optimism.

And, just to cover on down the line.

"Hopeful" means having qualities that inspire hope. and "Hope" has the following definitions:

1) to cherish a desire with anticipation : to want something to happen or be true

2) (archaic ) trust

3) to desire with expectation of obtainment or fulfillment

None of which are Optimism. Because, again, Optimism requires Hope and Confidence that that hope will be met


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah. Half-elves are already literally better at doing anything Dragonborn might want to do. Skills and extra stats, advantage on saves vs. charmed and immunity to sleep, and darkvision? And Dragonborn gets, by comparison, a piddly-nothing breath weapon (that only recharges on a short rest, mind) and resistance to a single element? Wow, I'm so underwhelmed.

I won't deny that I'm a huge fan of Dragonborn, so seeing them comparatively crapped on compared to pretty much every alternative hurts more. But the balance of race design has never been particularly rigorous in 5e. Letting any race have any stat bonuses is still a step in the right direction, though I absolutely think people should have to choose EITHER "+2 to any one, +1 to any other, proficiency, feat" or "default package, no changes," not mixing the two. I agree that that is a boneheaded move because just adding versatility to the equation while keeping EVERYTHING else exactly the same doesn't actually fix the problem, it just makes the problem a little harder to see.

I've seen a few different fixes for Dragonborn over the years.

One of the big ones was increasing the breath weapon and making it a bonus action (which makes it much more powerful)

I've also seen the Ravenite version from Wildemount being used well. Darkvision and a counter-attack move. But yeah, Dragonborn needed another design pass to be certain. But the moving of the stats I think just highlights that, since it makes us focus more on those abilities that turn out to be a little weak.
 

Oofta

Legend
Huh. Here I thought mountain dwarves got a +2 to strength and hill dwarves got a +1 to wisdom because that's what the PHB told us they got. Also, that they're fantasy made up races and can be just about anything.

Guess we needed a hundred or so posts to clarify that for some reason. :confused:
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Sigh

And all the writing I ever do for my characters is now completely meaningless, because all people will see is that gasp of horror I want my classes to have a 16 in their primary stat.

..I should be burned at the stake for such heresy...Because now, I will be seen as a liar for all the story stuff I honestly do love. After all, three days of advocating for the story potential was just called nonsense, and this, this is my true, dark intention. Min-Maxing.
He's a witch! Burn him!

 

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